Build blazing websites with Genesis and GenYou are who you hang with! Jessica Jones – Guest – David Vs Goliath – e45

Adam :

Coming up today on David Versus Goliath. You are who you hang with. You’re a forever student.

Jessica:

Yes.

Adam :

You can always learn something. The world owes you nothing. I can’t take any more pain.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to today’s episode of David Versus Goliath, a podcast dedicated to helping small businesses leverage technology to not only help them compete against their large competitors, but win. Your host is currently the CEO of Anthem Business Software, a three time Inc 500 recipient, and a serial entrepreneur with a passion to help small businesses everywhere find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. Please join me in welcoming your host, Adam Degraide.

Adam :

Hey, everyone. It’s Adam Degraide with the David Versus Goliath Podcast. Welcome. Today’s guest is going to be Jessica Jones, an interior designer from Orange County, California, with her own firm. We’re going to learn so much about how to make things look beautiful today, and what it takes to run an interior design business. Many of us don’t think about it, but we all appreciate it when we see good design we may not even see it. We might feel it. We just know it’s right. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today on the David Versus Goliath Podcast.

Adam :

Today’s episode is brought to you by AnthemSoftware.com, where you can find, serve, and keep more customers profitably with their all in one solution of CRM software, marketing services that get results, and a training lab to help you make the right decisions as you grow your small business. Take the 120 second tour today at AnthemSoftware.com. Be sure to visit us online at DavidVsGoliathPodcast.com. There you can subscribe to receive our newsletter and apply to be on the podcast and so many other things are there as well, too. Articles, blogs. Check it out. Great source of information for small businesses and a great resource for you, as well, too.

Adam :

I’ve been talking about my personal project, Adam Degraide, The Calm. You’re looking at the album right now. It’s available on Apple. It’s available on Spotify. Here’s a quick little snippet of one of the tracks, check it out. We’ll be right back.

Adam :

And that is the Adam Degraide album called The Calm. And as I told you several weeks back, I was working on a rock album, and I started to record it over the last several weeks. It should be done by the middle of July. I’m pumped out of my mind. I’m having a blast. And a little later in this episode, I’m going to show you a snippet, a verse and a chorus, of a song that should rock your world. It’s called Octane. The project’s going to be called ADAM: Artist Developing Astonishing Music, and the EP is going to be called Apex Rising, which will make a lot of sense when we get to that part in today’s episode.

Adam :

Well, with all of that being said and getting all the music out of the way, let’s get back to business right now with Jessica Jones. Jessica, welcome to the David Versus Goliath Podcast.

Jessica:

Thank you, Adam, for having me. I’m very excited to be here today.

Adam :

It is so great. Well, you look fantastic.

Jessica:

Thank you.

Adam :

And Jessica, for the watchers and the listeners, is our first interior design owner. She has a company that she does interior design for people called the Jess Jones Design Group. And I took a look at your website before the show, and it’s well done. Well laid out. I’m excited to have you on the show because my wife and I just went through this about 18 months ago. We bought a house, a brand new house here on the lakes in Orlando. We hired an interior designer and this gentleman did a great job and he handled everything from shopping to the colors with Crystal. And how you and I met, Jessica, is from my wife. I believe in a past life she went to school out there in Orange County, California, which is a home away from home for me.

Adam :

Matter of fact, if the taxes were better and the politics were better out there, I’d be living there. I’m just talking to you people that live in California.

Jessica:

It’s really hard.

Adam :

Oh, it’s crazy. I don’t even know how you people do it.

Jessica:

Yeah.

Adam :

But Florida is the last bashing of freedom on the United States of America, so we’re glad we’re here. And right now, you’re currently the president of the ASID Orange County president chapter of the American Society of Interior Designers, and you also have recently started Jess Jones Design Group, which is a big step, because when you work for another firm for many years and you’ve been in the industry for so long, to take that step is awesome. And so what people love about the show, Jessica, is that we love interviewing people at all different stages of their small business, whether it’s brand new startup, to someone who’s been around five, six, seven years with 400 employees. We love all of it. And so welcome, today. When you’re looking back, tell the folks a little bit about your history and why you fell in love with design, and we’ll let the conversation take us from there.

Jessica:

Okay, great. Thank you, Adam. Design’s always been in my blood. My father is a sales executive for an airplane cabin interior design firm, and my grandfather, his father, was a custom upholstering maker and a custom furniture maker, so it’s always been there and I didn’t realize that until obviously I was in my later teens and early twenties, that I would be a third generation designer. I went back to college. I dropped out of college and I went back to college in my mid twenties, and I graduated from the Interior Designers Institute in Newport Beach, California.

Jessica:

And from there, I just flourished and I really found my passion. I never was into math and science and everything, regular college curriculum, and I just felt, “This feels right.” And I excelled there. And from there, I started to work for a high end luxury boutique design firm in Newport Beach for 10 years, honed in my skills, got a lot of experience, a lot of exposure. I thought I knew what luxury design was graduating and living in Orange County, and I had no idea. It was quite the shock, to be honest with you.

Adam :

Yeah. But you know what, though? That is a good area of the country to be living in. There’s a lot of amazing projects. You think about the beautiful homes that are there. I think of just in Laguna and Newport Beach, but there’s so many people that are buying properties, tearing them down and refurbishing them or building them from scratch, and they need someone like you. And I liked what you said. I watched an interview that you had recently with an industry publication. It was Monogram, I think. It’s actually on your website, and I encourage people to go take a look at it. And he was talking about trends that you’re seeing in the market.

Adam :

And what I thought was fascinating is that you said you love to keep things timeless, whether that’s a modern current flare or a traditional, and then you said there was a third. There was a third one. Transitional, I think, is what you said. Transitional. And I thought that was interesting. What do you mean exactly by that? It was so funny. My buddy bought a house here in Florida and he’s gutting it and he’s renovating it. He doesn’t have the budget to have an interior designer, so as he’s taking me through his home, he is doing each room in there. It’s great. And he goes, “And this is our 1970s bathroom,” literally made with white and then green and the worst lighting you’ve ever seen in your life.

Jessica:

Yeah, yeah.

Adam :

So back then, somebody said to themselves, “Oh, this is modern and it’s going to be timeless.” But obviously, it is not timeless. It’s a ’70s bathroom clearly. So what do you mean exactly by that? Regardless of whether it’s transitional, modern, or traditional, how do you try to take that project and keep it timeless without losing the heart of a modern flare, for example?

Jessica:

Right. And that’s a good question. When it comes to working with an architect, or if I don’t have an architect, working with the integrity of the actual home or the building. If you have a traditional home or a craftsman home or anything that has an architectural style to it, I try to keep that, to keep the integrity, to keep the house cohesive inside and out. When I’m doing that process, I like to keep materials that are timeless. And when I say that, it’s brick, it’s natural stone, it’s hardwood, floors, nothing that’s going to date the house quickly.

Jessica:

You can always have fun with your light fixtures, your furnishings, your rugs, your art. That could be more trendy. But when you keep the bones of the house more timeless and clean, that house can stand the test of time. It’s obvious that design has really transitioned since the ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s to where we are today, but I’ve designed homes in the early 2000s that if you were to walk in it to today, it still feels current and new because of the materials that are used and the colors that are used.

Adam :

Is that because, Jessica, what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to create, like you said, the bones and the structure to be as simple as possible and let the accent pieces dictate what is current or what you’re trying to go for for that time period accent?

Jessica:

Yeah.

Adam :

Or is it a little bit of both?

Jessica:

It’s a little bit of both, but at the end of the day, I try to also come off to be a little bit more architectural. I want whole walls of back splash, whole walls of fireplaces, floor to ceiling details, built in niches and some characteristics that you’re not going to see on the average home. I’ve worked with custom homes and I work with every kind of budget today with my own firm, but when it comes to when you really focus on the actual intent of the design and you keep that integrity of the design.

Jessica:

Say, for example, you have a house and it’s more of a traditional farm style house, and you have brick on the exterior. Well, let’s bring the brick on the interior somewhere, whether that’s a back splash, a fireplace, a column, a feature wall. And so then you’re repeating those materials and you’re keeping the color scheme the same. I also call it a little bit more neutral organic. One of my styles is I love European organic design, and if you think about it, when you travel abroad and you go to Europe, those things are timeless and they’ve been built by brick and marble and stone and limestone, those timeless materials that we can still use today.

Adam :

Yeah.

Jessica:

It’s just a matter of how you execute it.

Adam :

Yeah. It’s interesting, and as you could tell by my questions, I am not an interior designer. I can barely dress myself, as you can see. I’ve got little gray in the beard. I’m wearing a David Versus Goliath t-shirt, and you look professional and put together. I, on the other hand, look like a bum. But as I tell people all the time, I earned my way out of wearing suits years ago, so I buried them. And it’s interesting. So when you went to school, how long is school for getting your interior design degree, so to speak?

Jessica:

Well, it could be a four year degree. It could be a two year degree. You can go in and get your master’s. It depends on what area and what avenue. A lot of commercial designers and mini architects. And so I went to four years and I graduated from IDI in 2004, and I did night school. I worked my way through college and I went to night school, and that’s where I met your wife and we had a lot of classes together. We actually even traveled to Italy together.

Adam :

Oh, that’s right. That’s great. Good.

Jessica:

Yeah.

Adam :

You’ve got to tell me some of the stories when we get together and I have a drink with you this summer. You got to tell me some Italian stories with my wife. Yeah. That’d be great.

Jessica:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Adam :

Yeah. It’s fascinating. So you went for four years and then you learned it and then you started to just get involved in it, and I think the watchers and listeners of David Versus Goliath, they love to hear people’s stories on how not only did they get into it, because you owning your own interior design firm did not happen overnight. It takes time.

Jessica:

No. A lot of time.

Adam :

It takes planning and goals. And so when you were working for that other very top end design firm that you worked at for several years, at what point during that journey did you start to think in your back of your mind, Jessica, that this is something you wanted to do on your own, versus being a part of that team, and then how did you prepare to make that transition?

Jessica:

Okay. I was there and I was very happy working with this firm and my boss, and she was a brilliant designer, and it was probably about year seven. I had gotten married and I was working full time for her, and I was just really learning a whole lot and thought I’d have more growth in the company, and I just really didn’t see that happening. And so, long story short, my husband and I decided that it’s time for us to create Jess Jones Design Group. And so on the downtime, the side hustle, nights and weekends, I was photographing side work that I had done, side projects that I had done throughout the years. I was working on all of the marketing, the business plan, the website, the branding, the logo.

Adam :

That’s great.

Jessica:

All of that for months, for at least six months, probably almost 10 months before I launched. And I eventually gave my notice and I launched, and my anniversary date’s coming up. June 1st I’ll be in business for six years.

Adam :

Wow.

Jessica:

And I’ve never looked back.

Adam :

That’s great, by the way. I’m clapping. I’m clapping for you.

Jessica:

Thank you.

Adam :

I love stories like this because everyone’s journey to owning their own business is a different one. If you looked at my history, Jessica, everything from flipping hamburgers, I managed a restaurant at 18 years old, I delivered pizza for Domino’s. I was a customer service rep at a bank. I became a radio salesperson. I made jingles for people. I then went to my own ad agency, turned it into my own software company. The road is never a straight line, but everything that surrounds us in our life has an amazing impact.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

So when you think about, it was that seven year itch you had in the business that you were currently dealing with. You started to say, “Man, I really want to do this myself.” It’s still a big step to do that, to take that faith. We’re going to talk about that in a little bit. But when it comes to planning and goals, when you were working on that transition, did you and your husband, or did you have a specific plan in mind? In other words, “I’m going to leave on this date. Here’s what I need to do from a marketing perspective. Here’s how we’re going to get clients.” Or was it kind of like you hung a shingle up, stared at each other and said, “I hope somebody comes to us.” Was there a plan, or was it more you were shooting from the hip?

Jessica:

It was both. It was both. Because I had so many great relationships and I’ve been in the industry for 10 years, I had a lot of connections, so I knew that the business would come in little by little and I did have a plan. And like I said, social media was hitting off at the time, even more so the website. But for me, it was just getting in front of the builders and the architects and letting everyone know that I branched off on my own, and I did get quite a few clients instantly when I did launch on June 1st. I hadn’t planned that date, and actually, my boss was about ready to give me a raise and promote me when I already had everything set into place, because she probably felt the vibes that I wasn’t happy there anymore. And so at that point I had to give her my notice. But I stayed for another almost two months so I can train someone, because I was that right hand person.

Adam :

Yeah. And that really is the key, man. If you’re going to move out on your own and somebody’s counting on you in a big time way, you’ve got to do it the right way. Jessica, that’s awesome. We’ve got to take a break from our corporate sponsor, Anthem Software, but stay right there because it’s going to be a lot of fun. Listen to this. You’re learning about interior design right now. Who knew that there was modern, traditional and transitional? Whatever the heck that means, Jessica knew it. I had no idea. But we’re going to be back in a second. Here’s a very important message from our sponsor, Anthem Software. We’ll be right back.

Speaker 1:

Anthem Business Software System is designed to specifically help small businesses just like yours find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. We do this by providing you with the most powerful software automations and marketing services to help your business compete and win in this ever changing digital world. Take a short video tour at AnthemSoftware.com. (singing)

Adam :

And we’re back with Jessica. Now, Jessica, I promised my listeners a little sneak peek of a musical project that I am working on right now. Here’s a rough mix. This is not going to fit into this episode at all, Jessica. My piano acoustic album and string album would 100 percent fit in this episode, but I’m about to play some hard rock that I’ve been working on. It’s a project called the ADAM Project. The EP’s going to be called Apex Rising. Here’s a little track, just the beginning of it and the first chorus of a song called Octane. Enjoy. (singing)

Adam :

And as you can tell, your head was just blown off from that ridiculous song. And Jessica, I should have probably debuted my string album and acoustic piano album, which I don’t know if you’ve heard yet. You should check it. It’s on Apple and Spotify.

Jessica:

I have heard a little bit.

Adam :

All right, good. Yeah. Make sure you go and follow it and add it to a playlist and stream it, because I need my 2 cents a play.

Jessica:

Okay. I will do.

Adam :

I give you a lot of credit because when you’re starting your own business and you’re planning that and you’re thinking that the back of your mind, people don’t appreciate this. There’s people that are watching and listening right now that are going through this exact same thing, where they’ve been in a place for a long time, they’ve been in an industry for a long time, they’re maybe not psyched with the way things are being run. In the back of their minds they’re thinking, “Oh, I could do this better.”

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

Well, what the heck are you waiting for? At some point, you’ve got to do it. And so here you are, you’re going through it, you’re planning it, you go out, you had the tenacity to do it. Now, you’ve recently started to expand your business. Originally, it was you out on your own. You just added a full-time person as well, too, which is another big step, by the way, and that comes into people. As an interior designer, even though you might only have one or two or three employees in the actual design group itself, there are dozens and dozens of relationships that you rely on to do your job.

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

Tell the watchers and listeners A, how do you find the people that you work with that you trust that deliver that consistent quality? Because whether you’re vetting a vendor or a supplier, it’s not much different than vetting somebody who is going to be working alongside of you. It’s very similar, because in many respects, if they mess up, they’re hurting your brand and vice versa. Right?

Jessica:

Correct.

Adam :

So tell the folks a little bit about your process and how you selected the people that you currently work with and how you find more. And then, second of all, what do you look for in people that are going to be working in the future for your design firm?

Jessica:

It’s a great question because it really is going to make or break your business, and it’s something, as president of American Society of Interior Designers, I talk about a lot and I bring to the table for the emerging professionals, the students and even veteran designers, is that your relationships are going to make or break you, so nurturing the relationships with the vendors, the architects, the builders, the artisans, the showrooms, all of your outside sales reps, and you just build these relationships and they will have your back when things go wrong, because things do go wrong at times. You could try your hardest to plan everything out, but sometimes it just doesn’t go accordingly. It’s not science, and if you have a great team, you’re going to excel, but if there’s one person on that team that isn’t a team player, things can fall through the cracks pretty quickly.

Jessica:

So through the years, 10 years being in Orange County and in the industry, I had gained a lot of relationships and I still have those relationships. I’ve worked with some of my reps now for 15, 18 years now.

Adam :

That’s great.

Jessica:

And then of course, I always introduce new reps and I want to give new people the opportunity, as well, and I’ve always been a big advocate on learning. I’m always wanting to learn more, so I reach out to my reps to know about the latest, the greatest product, whether it’s appliances or fabrics or furniture, stone, plumbing fixtures. I’m always wanting to learn more so that I could bring that to the plate for my clients.

Adam :

Yeah. I want to ask you a more specific question about that, too, but I actually interviewed a dude who works with interior designers, stores and interior designer, and he does cow hides that are in from Brazil. He does zebra skins that are in from I don’t even know where, but ethically sourced. His name was- oh my gosh, I’m losing my mind. I’ve interviewed so many people recently. His company is called Furug. F-U-R-U-G.com.

Jessica:

Okay, I will.

Adam :

Check it out, because it might have some really cool stuff that people out there might like. I want you to get very specific. You talked about nurturing relationships, and one of the things we try to do here on David Versus Goliath is give a practical example. In the early days when you were working for that other firm, how did you develop relationships with people at that point that carried you into when you went on your own? Did you bring them donuts? Was it just about being friendly? Did you visit them from time to time? Did you socialize with them at shows? Very granular, how did you develop those relationships, either A, that came along with you when you went on your own, and B, that you’re finding right now? What are the steps that you take to try to really show that, “I’m a valuable person. I believe what you have is valuable. Let’s work together.” How do you do that practically?

Jessica:

Right. Typically, it’s the reps coming to me bringing me the donuts and bringing me the bottles of wine and taking me to lunch and to dinners and to trade shows, because they want to sell their product to me.

Adam :

That’s great.

Jessica:

But at the end of the day, I reach out to them if I have a special project and I’m like, “I need a very specific kind of wood species for this wood floor for this very specific project.” I reach out to those reps. They provide those samples. But yeah, it becomes trust, and the firm that I was at, the reps had to get through me to get to my boss. And so they would all want to come into the office and I would meet with them and they would showcase their fabrics and their materials.

Adam :

Their cow hides.

Jessica:

Or their cow hides. Exactly, which I’m sitting on right now, or under my my sofa right now is a beautiful cow hide. And then you learn trust, then you learn also the quality of the products that are being brought in. Then you know the budgets and the price points of where you can place these for the client projects. And wood flooring can go from two dollars a square foot to $25 a square foot, so just knowing those different vendors carry the different budgets for you across the board on every single thing for interior design, that’s paint, that’s plumbing, fixtures, light fixtures, furniture, fabrics, you name it. Over time, they’re your go-tos, and they trust you and you trust them, and they’re going to perform. If you ever have to bring them in for client meetings as well, they’re going to make you shine because you’ve given them so much work and you’ve been so loyal and faithful to them.

Adam :

Yeah.

Jessica:

And them to you, as well. They’re going to bend over backwards to help you on any [inaudible 00:26:42]

Adam :

They really are an extension of your design group, right?

Jessica:

They are. 100 percent.

Adam :

Yeah. And vice versa. You’re an extension of their product and services.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

I find the whole industry fascinating because in your business, I would imagine you’re typically trading time for money.

Jessica:

Correct.

Adam :

So in other words, I say to you, “Jessica, Hey, I just bought a 5,000 square foot home. It’s on Laguna Beach. We’re tearing it down on building a 7,500 square foot home.” You probably look at square footage, I would imagine, and how you’re pricing out your product, how much time it’s going to take.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

Walk us through the life of a proposal of something like that. Some guy comes to you or some gal comes to you and they say, “Here’s the project. This is what we’re looking to do.” And they don’t have much more beyond that. How do you help them think that through themselves and then present the proposal to actually get the business?

Jessica:

Okay. It’s done in a couple different ways. It depends if it’s a referral from past clients, friends, family, architects, builders, vendors, or if it’s someone that actually found me from website or social media or Google, and so you vet them and you kind of interview them. So you go through a discovery call process. And at that point, if it’s a client that is of caliber for you, then you go, and I typically will have a meet and greet and have a consultation with them. If it’s a new build, then we just meet to go over their current plans. If it’s a remodel, I’ll meet in their home and I’ll walk and talk the design ideas.

Jessica:

And then from that point, I will look at the scope of work. I’ll see the square footage of the house. I’ll see everything that’s entailed, if it’s all new construction and new furnishings, and I will sit down for days and I’ll plug all the numbers and all the dollars and say, “Okay, this is where we’re at. It’s going to be approximately 500 hours to do your project. These are the fees.” And then if they say, “Okay, it’s a go.” And there’s a lot of variables there, because if they have an architect and a builder and you have a whole team, if the clients are decision makers and they can make decisions quickly, projects can go more smoothly, but you never really know who that client is, and you’re getting really intimate with them.

Jessica:

We’re talking about how they want their bathroom laid out, what kind of sheets that they want to be sleeping on, just how they use everything in their kitchen. Right? So you’re having conversations with them, and sometimes that can get, not uncomfortable, but out of the client’s comfort zone, because they’re not used to having strangers ask them their private living situations.

Adam :

Yeah, sure, sure. It’s funny you say that, because I remember when Nathan, he was our interior designer that Crystal found here locally in our area in Florida. Great guy, by the way. Awesome. You’d love him. Great spirit. Great panache. The guy was very talented, but I kept finding myself like the Steve Martin character on Father of the Bride.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

Saying to him, “No, Nathan, I’m looking for the cheaper chicken. The cheaper chicken, Nathan. No, we don’t want to do filet mignons on top of lobster and caviar. How about some fried chicken for me, Nathan? Just once in a while. One of those.” And we used to laugh all the time because my wife, she loves interior design, and so she respects the process. The guy that comes in and he goes, “I’ll take the cheaper chicken, please, with the fried french fries on the side and the green beans.” But admit we made a really good combination, because I think the blend of my sense of humor and Crystal’s pillow talk at night, we got it done.

Jessica:

Or her love of fine wine and caviar.

Adam :

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I was that guy. So I wonder how you would’ve managed a guy like me that would say to you, “Hey, Jessica, this is all lovely stuff. That cow hide’s great. But how about we get some stuff from Target?”

Jessica:

Adam, I have that all day long. We look at the budget, and what I do tell my clients is that I have worked at such a high end firm for so long that I know what looks good on a budget. I always will say, “Can we pick and choose our battles?” We’ll pick and choose where we’re going to spend that budget. Where’s the biggest bang for our buck? So is that going to be in the beautiful grand fireplace? Or is it going to be in your sofa.

Adam :

Yeah. Or in a rug.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

Maybe it’s not this room. Maybe it’s not the rug. Maybe it’s the furniture.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

It was a fascinating process, and at some point I had to put the kibosh on it and just say, “All right, stop the bleeding, the pain is over. I can’t take more pain.” And I’m pretty sure my producer’s going to use that. I can’t take anymore pain. And he’s going to put that in the trailer, guaranteed. That’s really awesome. We’ve got to take another break from another sponsor.

Jessica:

Okay.

Adam :

When we come back, I want to talk about two things. I want to talk about marketing, because I would imagine marketing’s a big part of how you get your word out to people.

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

And then we want to talk about courage. You’re with Jessica Jones and your handsome host, Adam Degraide. You’re watching and listening to the greatest small business podcast in America, if I say so myself, which I say all the time, the David Versus Goliath Podcast, stay tuned, we’ll be right back.

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Adam :

And we’re back for our final segment with Jessica Jones. This is going to be great. I’m quick on the draw. She was trying to give me a one second thing. She was trying to take a sip of water and I was like, “No, we’re going for it.” But we’re back here on the David Versus Goliath Podcast. Now, when you’re doing a house, I’m assuming that a lot of before and afters are part of your storytelling, right?

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

It’s critical. Even when you go to your website, I notice your website is beautiful. We’re showing a little piece of it right now, if that’s okay, Jessica. Is it okay if I show your website?

Jessica:

Absolutely. Please do.

Adam :

My producer right now is scrolling a little bit through the homepage and you can see, I notice white is a really big thing right now. We actually did the same thing with our house. We used to have a more traditional home and we had arches that were in the hallways. We blew them out. We straightened them out to give it more height versus that old style, the Spanish style that was here. And we painted like different shades of white around, and we really cleaned up. Here’s a shot of our kitchen really quick. I’m showing you just so you can get an idea of what we did in the kitchen.

Jessica:

Very nice.

Adam :

The cabinets used to be red, so we really tried to lighten it and brighten it. Before and afters are critical. Social media’s critical. How much do you do right now? And what are the mediums that you’re finding the most success on when it comes to the visual representation of what you do?

Jessica:

I think the website is really, really key, and having a Google page. I do get inquiries from social media on occasion. That’s not my ideal client, so I don’t expect to get all my ideal clients from a social media. It’s more of a look book for a lot of people. I follow a lot of designers and architects and builders and cool vendors and showrooms and stores throughout the world, so I go there for inspiration. I think a lot of people go there for inspiration.

Jessica:

When it came to my marketing and the team that helped me build my website and logos and branding, it all was about who I am, and I pride myself on that elegance of timeless design. And so I wanted my website and branding to also reflect that. And for myself, personally, I’ve had a lot of word of mouth advertising and clients through my vendors, through my builders. I get a lot of work from the people that I’ve worked with in the past.

Adam :

It’s interesting most businesses should have their highest level of percentage of clients coming from word of mouth. Obviously, customers who love you and refer you. Not easy to do. It’s amazing to me, though, how people still go to Google to check out your reviews.

Jessica:

Yes.

Adam :

Do you proactively try to get reviews from your customers?

Jessica:

All my reviews are on the house platform, and I also feature some testimonials on my website, but I do typically ask my clients at the end of a project, if they would mind sharing a testimonial about how it was to work with me, because I feel that really validates when people don’t know you, and say it is a complete stranger, it’s not a referral, they go on there and they, they can see that, “Okay, she’s worked with many, many other clients. She has projects on here. She has social media, there’s reviews. A house page.” All the things that align for an interior designer, I’m represented there. Facebook included. Pinterest, all of the different social media platforms. I think that, ideally, it’s important to have that feedback. And I always want to know the good, the bad and the ugly, because I always want to improve myself. Right?

Adam :

Yeah, totally. Right.

Jessica:

I’m a lifelong learner, so I’m always wanting to better myself. I’m constantly diving into podcasts and Audible books and books, and I read constantly because at the end of the day, I’m only going to be as much as I know. My knowledge, right? Knowledge is power, and so I continuously always tap into those kind of things to help me grow so I could be a better designer. I could be a better client to my reps, but a better designer for my clients.

Adam :

Yeah. It’s awesome. You talk about student. I call it the principle called “you’re a forever student.”

Jessica:

Yes.

Adam :

You can always learn something.

Jessica:

Always.

Adam :

And the reason why you watch and listen to this podcast is because you’re a forever student and we’re all learning together. Nobody’s got the perfect formula, but together, all of our ideas collectively can make a major impact in our lives. Now, before we head onto my favorite topic, which is courage, it says, do you have any weird pet peeves? It says, “I don’t know if this is weird,” she said, “but I’m dumbfounded by people who are not self-aware, who are negative, and who are phony.” In other words, people are like, “Today’s horrible. The world’s a mess. I can’t stand it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” I’m with you on that, by the way.

Adam :

People like this tend to play a victim’s role. I can’t stand this. I think this is a major crisis, by the way, in our society at large, is the victimhood mentality, and especially in teenagers to mid twenties, it’s like the world owes you something. The world owes you nothing.

Jessica:

No.

Adam :

You owe the world something. There’s a big difference.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

And I’ll tell you, man, how long are we going to blame our parents for our problems, right? Or politicians for our problems. At some point we’ve got to look in the mirror. And then it also talked about when it comes to collecting things, I thought that was interesting. That’s why I wanted to read that, that you love to collect memories of travels, which I do as well, too. I’m like the family historian, Jessica.

Jessica:

Love it.

Adam :

Crystal doesn’t really take a lot of photos, but if we go somewhere, I’m purposely making sure I’m documenting something, and it was so amazing. By doing that over the last 12 years we’ve been together, however long it’s been. I think it’s been 12 at this point. 10 years of our anniversary coming up in November. For Christmas this year, she printed out a book for each year.

Jessica:

Oh, love it.

Adam :

Of all of our memories together of every year we’ve been together. It was so beautiful and so special. I actually shed a tear when I got it, because I was blown away at the work that went in to put that there.

Jessica:

I bet.

Adam :

But these things are important. Right? Timeless memories. And then, yeah, wine does count. She said, “Does wine count?” Because I collect wine, you collect wine. I collect wine. I’ve been talking about wine.

Jessica:

And shoes. Wine and shoes.

Adam :

I don’t have a lot of shoes, by the way. That’s the one thing my wife’s got a lot more than I have, is shoes.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

But shoes are important as well, too. But crystals, you said. You said you collect crystals. What do you mean by that? What kind of crystals?

Jessica:

Geodes, natural pieces of the Earth that are stone. And so we’re looking at smokey quartz and different quartzes and quartzites, and they just have a lot of energy to them. They’re natural and organic, so I like to have them, and they’re a little bit of glam in my home. I don’t have a very glamorous home. I’m a more organic casual person, but I just really love the energy that they bring into of this space.

Adam :

Do you find yourself using those in projects that you actually design as well?

Jessica:

Absolutely. Yes.

Adam :

I’ve seen a few of them. Crystal likes them a little bit more than I do. I’m into these like Swarovski Crystals Eagles. I have an eight and a half foot bronze horse in my living room. You know what I mean? I’ve got a picture of Crystal that I call it Crystal Spirit Animal, and we’ve shown it on this podcast before, of a cheetah. Actually, it’s a leopard. It’s a female leopard out of Africa. My house, it’s very interesting, but I noticed that there are people that love this stuff and that’s really, really cool. And they are beautiful.

Jessica:

I like found objects. I like to curate a home, and so I don’t want to just go to your local accessory store or your local home goods to find all the pieces for your home. I want to collect them and curate your house.

Adam :

And you want to have a story. I think that’s critical.

Jessica:

Yeah. That’s right.

Adam :

You’re got to have a story behind those things as well, too.

Jessica:

Exactly.

Adam :

Do you help people pick out artwork as well?

Jessica:

I try to. Art is very personal, so a lot of clients come with a lot of art already and sometimes we design the space around the art. I’m currently doing a project that we’re doing that right now. And then sometimes clients, they have no interest. Their interest is the quality of the sofa that they’re going to be hanging out watching the football game on versus a piece of art. Every client’s a little bit different, but yeah, I’ve curated art for clients as well.

Adam :

Yeah. Crystal and I were just talking about that the other day. We didn’t realize how much numbered art we have and how much we’ve, over the years, just enjoyed meeting the artists. Especially in lake Laguna Beach.

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

I’ve worked with Vladimir Kush. I have several of Vladimir Kush’s pieces. I have Marlon Holden.

Jessica:

Oh, I love Marlon. He’s my favorite.

Adam :

First of all, is Marlon the coolest guy in the planet, or what?

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

Jessica, when you see Marlon, I’ve got to actually put a call on him. I want Marlon on this podcast.

Jessica:

You should, absolutely.

Adam :

Because I want to show people his artwork, man, because he’s just a freaking master at his artwork.

Jessica:

Yeah. He’s actually a friend of mine.

Adam :

Oh, so you tell Marlon, “Adam and Crystal Degraide,” we go and see him once a year, and we bought a couple of pieces from them. And matter of fact, I’m showing a piece right now on Marlon Holden that I have here, and I actually used this as an inspiration for my family crest, which people could see on my website, AdamDegraide.com. But back to business. You sucked me into art talk. I can talk about this stuff. It’s so funny. When I interview musicians, I end up talking more about music than I do about business. I just can’t help myself. I love this stuff.

Jessica:

And I go that direction as well, because that’s my other favorite thing in life, is music.

Adam :

Are you a musician?

Jessica:

I am not a musician, and you don’t want me to be, but I love music.

Adam :

Yeah, man. I love music so much. I didn’t realize how much I missed doing my own music. For years, I produced other people’s music and I owned a record label and I found independent artists and I helped promote them and get their careers started, but I never did anything for myself. And it was funny, right around 49, 50 years old, when I turned 50, my wife, she just encouraged me. She’s like, “You’ve got to make an album, Adam. Your piano is beautiful.” So I did. And then I said, “I’ve never made a solo rock project.” I said, “But I’ve got nothing to sing about. I don’t have teenage angst, but I want to do hard rock.” So I came up with this idea to create songs about video game characters, and they’re coming out amazing, which as you heard earlier.

Adam :

And so I think that’s important in life, no matter how much we do business, that we are finding those things in life, whether it’s crystal collections, or pieces of art, or music, or literature, plays, movies, whatever we can to expand and enrich our lives, I think it really helps us become better entrepreneurs and better business owners, because that life experience is speaking into us now.

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

I always end it, my wife’s probably saying about this time, “Adam, shut up and ask her a question.” So yes, Crystal, here. I’m going to shut up. I’m going to ask her a question. When it comes to courage, I named the show David Versus Goliath because-

Jessica:

Which I love, by the way.

Adam :

Thank you. It takes a lot of courage to step out and slay a giant. Sometimes the giant is a competitor in an industry. You want to go and change that industry.

Jessica:

Right.

Adam :

Sometimes the giant is yourself that you have to face in the mirror to say, “Am I ever going to do something that I know I’m supposed to do?” Sometimes the giant is the person who told you’d never amount to anything and that you could never own your own business, and that’s your giant. So the point behind the show isn’t the fact that we’re just taking on big corporate bureaucrat BS, which we are, but at the end of the day, what is the giant that you’re taking on for you? And so when you think back, Jessica, on that day that you said, “You know what? I’m going to do this. I’m going to start to plan on it.” Your husband and you created this plan and you went for it. What was it in you that gave you the courage to do it? And then the second part is, what advice do you have to others that are in that exact same spot right now?

Jessica:

Yeah, it was a leap of faith, and it was a lot of courage, and I had a lot of mentors, some beautiful, beautiful people in my life that saw the talent in me that I didn’t not see. I didn’t grow up with the parents that are encouraging me, telling me I could do it all in my life. I really had to prove myself and I’m still proving myself to this day, but I now have a different perspective in life. I have a different love for myself. I have my relationship with God, and it really all helped me realize that when you finally find that love in yourself, that you can really do anything, and it continues to happen. I manifest stuff and I pray and things happen quickly in my life because I just really put my heart and soul into it and know that I am a good person and that I can make a difference in my own life, let alone other people’s lives.

Jessica:

And so now I have an employee and I’m helping with her life, and then I create beautiful spaces for my clients. And now I’m a part of a design community that I absolutely love and it’s flourishing here in Orange County. It’s all the different things that have helped me get the courage, but I’ve had some really low times, and in those low times, I’ve had to dig really deep and I journal a lot and I have to come to terms with myself and I have to get out of that comfort zone. When I’m in my comfort zone, I go nowhere. But when I really look at what I want in life, I could sit here and be that same person all day long. I could have worked for my boss forever and made a decent living and never strived for bigger goals. And now that I’ve been on my own, I’m so goal oriented that every day I am surprised at what I can create for myself and my surroundings and my loved ones.

Adam :

That is awesome. I’ll tell you, man, that is profound. What advice do you have for people that are maybe stuck right now?

Jessica:

Trust yourself. Dive in. Ask yourself the hard questions. You have to own your own responsibility of who you are, and if you’re out partying all the time, or you’re not taking care of yourself, or you’re not feeding yourself with more knowledge, or you’re just continuously around negative people, that’s not going to get you where you need to be. You need to surround yourself with like-minded people and people that are successful, people that do have goals. Have those difficult conversations. I always say, be a part of a community, whether it’s a church community or a spiritual community or a design community, but something that’s going to influence you to make better choices in your life.

Adam :

That is great. That is great advice. I remember I read a John Maxwell book years ago, and he said something that’s so true. You are who you hang with. If you want to be successful, hang with successful people. If you want to be miserable, hang out with those who look at the world through a dark glass.

Jessica:

Absolutely.

Adam :

If you want to see things of beauty, hang around with people who see beauty. That is great advice. Jessica, have you had fun being other David Versus Goliath Podcast today?

Jessica:

Yes, I’ve had a blast. This on my first podcast, so it was a little nerve wracking, but now that we’re into it, I think that you and I can sit here and talk for hours.

Adam :

Exactly. And we will this summer, when I’m coming to hang out in Newport Beach.

Jessica:

I can’t wait. I can’t wait.

Adam :

It’ll be a blast. I’m looking forward to it. Jessica Jones, how can people find you?

Jessica:

They can find me at my website, JessJonesDesignGroup.com. I’m also on Instagram.

Adam :

That’s awesome. Are you in LinkedIn at all?

Jessica:

I am on LinkedIn. Yep. I’m on all the platforms.

Adam :

There you go, folks. Jessica Jones, Adam Degraide, David Versus Goliath, education, inspiration, activation is what you get right here on the DVG podcast. Thank you so much for watching and tuning in. We’ll see you next week. Have an awesome day.