David VS Goliath Podcast – S1 – Episode 37 – Anthony Sabatini

Adam DeGraide:
Coming up today on David Versus Goliath. Anybody who’s truly loved is equally hated.

Adam DeGraide:
Nickelback. Half of you were saying, I love Nickelback. Half of you were saying, that’s the worst rock band in the world.

Speaker 2:
Welcome to today’s episode of David Versus Goliath. A podcast dedicated to helping small businesses, leverage technology to not only help them compete against their large competitors, but win. Your host is currently the CEO of Anthem Business Software. A three time Inc 500 recipient and a serial entrepreneur with a passion to help small businesses everywhere find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. Please join me in welcoming your host, Adam Degraide.

Adam DeGraide:
Hey everyone. It’s Adam Degraide with another great episode, an edition of the David Versus Goliath podcasts. Today, we discuss the business of politics. We’re not going to get overly political, but we are going to look at how campaigns are run like a business. It’s going to be very, very interesting. Today’s episode is brought to you by Anthem Software, where you can find, serve, and keep more customers with their all in one solution built specifically for small business of CRM software, marketing services, and consulting to help your business grow. Every business has a song, including yours. Let Anthem Software sing your next song out to your public. It’s going to be awesome. Great to have you. You can always visit us online at davidvsgoliathpodcast.com, where you can subscribe to receive our newsletter as well as apply to be on the podcast right here, where we feature the small guy who’s taking on the big guy and winning.

Adam DeGraide:
Another very important announcement, my album, I’ve been working on should be out by the time this video comes on. It’s called Adam degrade. The Calm. My last name is spelled D-E-G-R-A-I-D-E. You should be able to get it on apple music, Spotify, anywhere music is distributed. You should be able to found it, find it. If for some reason you can’t figure that out, just go to Adamdegraide.com, but here’s 30 seconds of the second track on it or maybe it’s a little longer than 30 seconds. It’s called Just Another Day. Enjoy.

Adam DeGraide:
Make sure you check out the album, stream it. If add it’ll help you relax, especially with this episode, which if you don’t agree with Anthony Sabatini politically, could raise your blood pressure. If you do agree with him, could raise your blood pressure and what better way to relax than a little Adam Degraide, The Calm, the album that’s now out right now. Well, with no further ado, let’s get right into it with Anthony Sabatini. Anthony, welcome to the David Versus Goliath podcast.

Anthony Sabatini:
Hey, it’s great to be on. Appreciate it.

Adam DeGraide:
I’m so glad to have you on here. My whole life, Anthony. So first of all, before we get into this, let me just read this really quick. Anthony Sabatini was born on October 20th, 1988. He’s an American attorney and a politician serving as a member of the Florida house of representatives from the 32nd district. He’s a candidate in the 2022 United States house of representatives election in Florida for Florida’s seventh congressional district. Now, is that accurate so far? Because I got the off Wikipedia.

Anthony Sabatini:
That’s pretty accurate.

Adam DeGraide:
All right, good.

Anthony Sabatini:
Not everything on Wikipedia is accurate, but that’s fine.

Adam DeGraide:
I know. There’s a lot of things on Wikipedia about me that aren’t accurate either. I was thinking about this because I wanted to do an episode on the business of politics because my whole life, I’ve always heard things like he’s just a politician or she’s just a politician. They’ve never made a payroll or they never had their own business. And I guess to some degree, that’s true, right? I mean, if you’ve never really run your own business or people would think that’s not the greatest thing in the world, however, it’s not that it’s misleading. I just don’t think it tells the whole story. Because as I started to talk with you in regards to your campaign and I’ve seen other campaigns in the past, I mean, campaigns are like micro businesses in general.

Adam DeGraide:
I mean, you have to motivate people. You have to have a plan and goals. You have to leverage technology. You have to have process in which you and the people and the team are leveraging that technology. And then you have to have courage to actually decide you’re going to run and build a team around you. In your experience. I know, you and I were talking about this. How does that feel to you? Does that strike you as something to be an accurate statement or do you think I’m over overstating the fact that it’s a micro business?

Anthony Sabatini:
No, I think that’s exactly right. I think it’s just like running a small business. I was a small business manager for a number of years, restaurants, I guess it’s kind of similar, small business concept in the sense of you’re trying to operate in day to day, but you’re also trying to grow it and you’re trying to spend the X amount of money on marketing. So that way you can grow more and I’m running for Congress. So at that scale of politics you spent, you’re raising at least a million dollars. So we’ve raised $1 million. And the question is how do you spend that million dollars? Are you spending it back in marketing, putting it back into the campaign to try to gain more donors or more support or are you putting it into accomplishing the goal, which is voter outreach and trying to get more votes?

Anthony Sabatini:
So no, it’s very similar to managing a small business. And I mean, as you go up higher politics, sometimes you’re talking about 50 million or whatever, but the scale is similar to a small business and the decisions you have to make and the trade offs you have to make are very similar. And then of course, running a small team. We have 10 employees, they’re only temporary employees because the campaign’s not permanent, but we have 10 employees. We try to manage them, motivate them and get them to buy into the company per se, in terms of the campaign and try to incentivize them. So it’s very similar.

Adam DeGraide:
It is really similar. And for the watchers and listeners, I’m sure that you’re now looking up, Anthony Sabatini, you’re finding out he’s a conservative Republican. By the way, I’m sure the principles we’re discussing here today are true for Democrats as well, too because I was recently at an event that you actually had and I was impressed with your staff. Your team showed up to the event, they came early, they had things organized, you showed up, the event went off great. You’re able to raise a little bit of money. They seem to be excited about your candidacy. And I think what people don’t realize is that anything truly great and worthwhile starts with one word and that word, I always say, Anthony, is believe. Right? So you have to believe that you’re called or you’re meant to do something larger than yourself.

Adam DeGraide:
Whether that’s start a business or run for office, there’s something in you that says I’ve got to do something different. In your journey to decide to, because I was reading a little bit of your past and some of the positions you’ve held and some of the things you’ve done, to decide to go from, you over Eustis, I believe, was a part that you were a part of to then running for Congress here locally in Florida, then to make the leap to go for Congress in the United States. Tell the folks a little bit about your journey about everything, how you were raised, to this point right now, where you’re going for it. And you have a pretty good chance of winning, that takes a lot of planning dedication, but at the beginning, it starts with belief. The fact that you think you could do it, tell the folks a little bit about that journey.

Anthony Sabatini:
Well, I think a lot of successful business people, I’m going to try to draw the analogy between politics and business people. When you want to create a successful business, you’re trying to serve customers, you’re trying to serve consumers. You’re trying to provide something that you think makes people’s lives better than what it was. And politics is something in the sense of you’re trying to commit public service, you’re trying to do something to improve the lives of others. And so, what brought me into politics was the fact that I thought I could help people. I love this country. I wanted to serve this country. I have a set of principles that are very popular where I run and I think do improve the lives of the people that I serve and running a campaign and being involved in politics is a lot like running a business in the sense of, you’re constantly trying to serve people.

Anthony Sabatini:
If their taste change, if they’re interested in something, if they’re trying to get something to happen, you need to be listening and reacting to that. And that’s one of the reasons why I find politics so interesting is as new problems emerge in society, people from across the political spectrum need to find ways to react to these issues and come with new solutions. And so that’s what’s kept me in it. I’ve been in six years and did two years as a city commissioner, four years in the state house. I’ve just been lucky enough to constantly open seats and new opportunities to serve. And now there’s a open congressional race here in central Florida. And so I’m running for that. But for me, it’s just about public service and stepping in to fill that need when there’s an opening.

Adam DeGraide:
Now, has that been something that was ingrained in you as a child? Was politics a big part of your childhood? Were any of your family members, politicians or anything like that? Or are you the first one?

Anthony Sabatini:
No, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. All my grandparents were immigrants from Italy. They came here with just the mindset of wanting to start a business and improve the lives of their family. And my parents were the same way. And so I was the first one to really get much more into government and civics and law and all this other stuff. I went to law school, joined the military. I’m still in the Florida Army National Guard, and I’ve been very involved politics for six years.

Adam DeGraide:
Thank you for your service.

Anthony Sabatini:
Thank you.

Adam DeGraide:
That’s awesome. My grandfather was in the Navy. My other grandfather was in the army. My dad and I, we never followed. And I sometimes wonder how I would’ve done there. Probably not as good. I’m a rock and roll musician and became a guy who builds software for a living. So who knows what would’ve happened to me if I went to bootcamp? Probably nothing good, but I do appreciate those that do serve and love the country. So, when you think about the five pillars of success in any business, it starts with plans and goals, right? So obviously the goal was to run for office and win. Then there’s a plan that needs to be created around that. Did you get a lot of help when you first started to do that? Did you talk to people that maybe had gone before you and get some advice or did you kind of work with yourself and a few other key people to draft it specifically for yourself?

Anthony Sabatini:
Yeah. So, I will tell you, there are basically two different types of campaigns. You got campaigns that are fueled by special interests, or maybe you’re self-funding it. And so you’re just spending money to run this sort of campaign, but what makes good campaigns and my campaigns different is their really grassroots-y, the very grassroots campaigns. And you have to get significant buy in. So when I ran city council in a smallish town of about 21,000 people, called Eustis, near Orlando, I went out pounding the pavement, picking up supporters at the door, knocking doors, getting people to donate, small dollar donations, went to spoke to every small business owner. And that’s what sort of built my original base of supporters, AKA clients, I guess you could say, would be the most similar term to a business. And that’s what helped me get to state legislature.

Anthony Sabatini:
When I remember state legislature, I had thousand donors, a lot of people coming out and hosting small events for me and knocking doors with me. And so it’s just been one step at a time, building a base of support of people who believe in the same vision and values that I have, to be successful in the political sphere. And today, it’s translated to Congress where now I have 7,300 people who have donated to the campaign. We’ve raised a million dollars, none of it from special interests, all from small business owners and families, average Americans, not super powerful, special interests, but it’s just been one step at a time, building up a base of support.

Adam DeGraide:
Now, when you’re doing the plan, do you get as micro or is it more macro? In other words, for a business person to get someone to be a client per se, or to be interested in learning more about it, it typically takes, let’s call it a thousand visitors to the website. A hundred of them are targets for this business. 20 of them have a need to get involved in it. And then half of those maybe have the means to even do something with that business when they get there. When you go, for example, to knock on doors, have you boiled it down to a math formula that says, if I go to a thousand doors a day or 500 doors a day, I can typically get this percentage of people to at least know my name. Have you guys gotten that granular in the campaign like a business would be?

Anthony Sabatini:
Absolutely. I’ve become a huge, I kind of always have been, but definitely more now than ever, a big numbers guy and a believer in metrics and measurement, et cetera. Now, when I first started politics, I remember city commission, I just sort of blanketed the whole city, signs, they were door knocking and were being everywhere and just sort of three sheets to the wind, just hoping that worked. But as I progressed, I’ve realized that winning campaigns, campaigning is about targeting. It’s really about microtargeting. You look at most people aren’t even registered to vote. You’re looking at the people that are registered to vote. You’re looking at the people, people who are eligible vote because you might have a primary election and therefore only people you’re particular political party or even allowed to vote in that election. Now, once you get in there, who are your high turnout voters, who are the ones that are never going to miss an election versus those who might show up every four years, maybe they vote for president.

Anthony Sabatini:
Maybe they skip that presidential election. They come to the next one. So they’re a lot less active. Well, you can find, I mean, with the data we have today, just like in any business, you can find lists and numbers that reflect accurately, the exact people you’re trying to target. And so in my congressional race, I have 769,000 people in this congressional district. That’s pretty much the same for every congressional district across the country. But especially Florida, it’s all the same down to the single digits. It’s the exact same number. And we know that in a non presidential year, only X amount of people are going to come out. We know that in a Republican primary, only Republicans can vote. We only know that some of them are active. So we’re actually looking at targeting only about 86,000 households out of a district that has 769,000 people.

Adam DeGraide:
Amazing. That’s amazing. And what I think is so fascinating for the watchers and the listeners. And so think about your own business, right? Have you gotten this targeted, like they are getting, even in the campaigns, in the political world, where you can boil down, try to figure out how do I get to the people that can make a difference today and have a meaningful impact? Now we’re going to take a quick break from our corporate sponsor. But when we come back, I do want to talk about your team and your people. So stay tuned. Anthony, this has been a lot of fun. It’s going to get even more fun. You’re with Adam Degraide and Anthony Sabatini, you’re watching the David versus Goliath podcast. Here’s a special message from Anthem Software. We’ll be right back.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 2:
(Singing).

Adam DeGraide:
And we’re back with Anthony Sabatini and your handsome host wearing the We the People shirt today, Adam Degraide. It is awesome to have you on the show, Anthony. We’re talking a little bit about plans and goals and how you’ve been able to boil down your outreach, so to speak, to target. Now that takes a team. You mentioned that you have temporary employees while the campaign is going. You have volunteers, I would imagine. What have you found to be the biggest challenge in building a team to support you, even for that short stint or to find great quality people that match what you believe, but more importantly, have the passion that you want them to bring. What is your process in finding these individuals?

Anthony Sabatini:
Well, I think some people are just going out seeking the most talented people, per se, just people who are highly competent at their job. I’m a little different. I think obviously, that’s a very good way to go, but I also try to find people who match me in principles and vision. I think if you have people that are really buying into the message of your campaign and what it is that you believe in and you want to accomplish, you’re more likely to get someone who’s going to work a little harder, be a little bit more loyal or dedicated to the campaign because campaigns are hard. This is one of those… Campaign electioneering is one of those sort of occupations where there is no nine to five. There is no typical predictive schedule. You don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t know what’s going to be asked of you.

Anthony Sabatini:
So I try to find people who have my values, first of all, the same values as the company per se, is a good analogy to a small business. And then once you bring those people in, they become good recruiting magnets too, because people might want to work with them. So we have outside consultants, we have people who do our taxes and finance. We have all these sort of various firms, but we have about 10 core employees. And of course, that’s your campaign manager, your field director, that’s organizing people in the field, but the bulk of them are your door knockers. I mean, campaigns are very old school. I think the best ones are very old school. In the sense of that, they’re actually out there pounding the pavement, knocking on doors, speaking to voters, one on one, and trying to communicate very directly the message of the campaign and trying to get them to buy in. Of course, you’re targeting people who you believe already have your values, but at the end of the day, making sure that you’re differentiated from other candidates in the race.

Anthony Sabatini:
And so I try to get people who have my vision values, and then I try to find the best, most hardworking people. And campaigns are one of those occupations that draw a lot of younger people in this. You get a lot of talented, young, high energy individuals who are interested in at least applying for a job, just because of the nature of politics. It’s an exciting field.

Adam DeGraide:
Now, do you have volunteers in addition to the consultants that you have and the paid employees?

Anthony Sabatini:
Now we have on paper-

Adam DeGraide:
Or interns, we call them interns for the lack of…

Anthony Sabatini:
We do. We have on paper 50 to a hundred people that are on paper, volunteers who want to help, but in terms of dedicated, reliable volunteers that are really working hard on the campaign, I’d say it’s about 12 to 20 people that are coming out, helping organize events, running errands, dropping off yard signs, doing all the typical, cliche things you’d expect the campaign to do 12 or 15 of them. But what we do is if you’re successful at fundraising, like I am, I try to pay people, even if they don’t really want the money, because I want them to feel that they’re part of… That we really want them here and that they’re being awarded for their-

Adam DeGraide:
Yeah. They’re being valued. Right. They’re being valued for their time.

Anthony Sabatini:
They’re being valued. Yeah. And some people say, no, don’t worry. I’m not doing it for money. But a lot of people, it gives them a sense of belonging to award them for what they’ve done.

Adam DeGraide:
Now I’m looking for a part-time job.

Anthony Sabatini:
I’ll get you.

Adam DeGraide:
I’m just kidding. I’m just joking. Now, part of running a business, Anthony is the leader at the top sharing vision that trickles out throughout the entire organization. Some people do it differently. Some people do it by memos. Some people do it by videos. Other people do it by weekly meetings. How often do you get with your team, all of you, the volunteers and the employees, or do you not do that? Is that left up to the campaign manager to do?

Anthony Sabatini:
No, no, it’s me. And we get together a lot. I’m really big on comradery and constant communication. So I mean, I can’t speak for every campaign, but I like to think I try to run a model campaign, a good campaign, and this is how we do it. So every Sunday night, there’s a weekly call where everybody’s on.

Anthony Sabatini:
It’s essentially two calls. One is the door knocker call, where we talk a lot more about direct contact with voters on the ground. Good, bad, ugly, everything we need to know and responding to new trends, questions, what’s in the news, what’s driving the campaign and then another call an hour later, that’s more high level strategy. What’s going on next? What do we need to do next? What are our fundraising metrics? What do we want our TV commercials to look like? We’re about to drop almost 400,000 in some TV ads in the next 30 days. So we’re having conversations about that, but we’re always communicating. And then we get together as much as we possibly can. So last week, I took 12 of my staffers out for a big dinner at Linda’s La Cantina Steakhouse in Orlando. One of my favorite restaurants.

Adam DeGraide:
Where is that? Where is that again?

Anthony Sabatini:
It’s off highway 50. It’s on east colonial, probably about a mile and a half east to downtown. It’s old school. It’s actually the oldest restaurant in Orlando. It’s a great spot, but I try to make it fun. Take people out for a beer, dinner, whatever coffee, and just make them really feel a sense of belonging. We also do Airbnb houses where we try to enthuse a lot of our volunteers that are younger from college in different places to come live together. So that way, they’re really, because like I said, these campaigns are really long. There’s a lot of hours. So when you’re living with the team and spending time with them, you grow with them.

Adam DeGraide:
When I think of campaigns, as you described them, they’re almost like initiatives that businesses have, right? So if you get a new product or an offering that comes out, you build a team, you build a promotion around it, you go and hit that target. And then that continues to live on. And then another thing comes in and at the same time, it’s exactly what we do in business. Now, technology and tools in today’s world is critical, right? You’ve got not only social media. I would imagine you have to have some sort of CRM tool that you’re using to be able to communicate via email or text, or maybe not. Maybe you’re not doing that. Are there tools that, you don’t have to necessarily name the name, but what kind of tools, you mentioned one that says you can help find demographics of people that are active voters, passive voters, currently registered, not registered, right? So, that’s a tool. Are there other tools that you’re using as a team to get the word out?

Anthony Sabatini:
Oh absolutely. Door knocking is everything. You have a database, a GPS sort of database that is very easily downloaded to a cell phone that allows you to target voters and call them and even see their voting record history. I can’t tell who they voted for, but I can tell that they’re registered one party or another. That’s public information in the state of Florida. So that’s one tool that we use. Another one is some databases having to do with digital advertising. We do digital advertising. We’re not wasting time going on Facebook and saying, do they have this similar interest that my consumers have? Or do they not like this? We actually are able to micro target people based on their voting in the state of Florida on digital targeting, Google, Facebook, Instagram, et cetera. So, that’s a big tool. Printing. I mean very primitive, very old school tool is just your print shop.

Anthony Sabatini:
I have a very close relationship with the print shop over here on the Western side of Orange County and Lake County where the guy who owns the print shop is also a graphic designer. So I’ll sit down with him for hours at a time and come up with really specific graphics to try to target the type of voter that we want and then build these mail pieces and then send them out. We’ve already done this up until this point in time, a hundred thousand in mail already, but we’re getting ready to do another 400,000 soon. So, those are some of the tools. Phone banking, you’re going to be calling people hours a day. There’s two types of calls. I mean, there’s days where I’m making hours of just fundraising calls, talking to people statewide or nationally about the campaign, trying to get them to buy in, write it a check to assist us.

Adam DeGraide:
That’s one of the questions I wanted to ask because you know my wife and I, especially my wife, she gets calls from politicians on both sides of the aisle daily, looking for donations. So she’s going to be on this hit list that says prime suspect, number one, my wife because you are calling out of state for similar like-minded people, right. To help aid you in that or is that not necessarily common? And is that more of a rare thing?

Anthony Sabatini:
Well, no. I mean, it’s rare in the sense that hardworking candidates are doing it, but not all candidates are hardworking. A lot of candidates you got to realize, just like they say, a lot of these small businesses fail, 80% of restaurants fail, whatever. In the first couple years, 90%. It’s same with candidates. 10 people will file for a seat and only one or two or three them are generally competitive and really have a good shot at winning it because people don’t want to put the work in. They don’t want to do what they have to do. So one of those things is fundraising. People are really nervous and just very… They clam up and they’re very, very hesitant to approach people, asking them to invest in the campaign sense of asking them for money.

Adam DeGraide:
There’s no difference. There’s absolutely no difference in asking them to buy your product versus somebody who calls Anthem Software and asking them to buy our product. The difference is our product is technology and marketing. Your product is policies and public laws. And if they aligned and they find value in it and they agree with you, the worst thing you could do is not ask him for something, Right. If somebody’s in the market for my product, yes, I need that. Yes, I’m not happy with my current situation. Yes, I want to change. As a salesperson-

Anthony Sabatini:
Exactly right.

Adam DeGraide:
Oh well that’s great. Well, think about it. Call me in the morning. No, it’s like, let’s do it right now. So I think that would probably be the similar thing for you. Right?

Anthony Sabatini:
Exactly. And just like a lot of business owners think, well, geez, I sell the best pizza or I have the best t-shirt. So obviously, that market’s going to come find me because I have a better product. That’s just not the case. The issue, the problem of getting information and knowledge to the consumer in this case, the voter, about who is the best and why they’re the best, everything else is really the key issue in elections.

Adam DeGraide:
It really is a blended strategy. I mean, what you’re describing is something that I preach my whole life. You’re knocking on doors, you’re doing print pieces, you’re running TV ads, you’re doing social media ads. You’re doing Google AdWords. You’re spending money on your website. You’re paying someone to help get social media word out there for you have social media manager. It’s not one thing that makes a business successful or in your case, your campaign successful. It’s all of these things working in concert together, folks, that makes all the difference in the world. Now, Anthony, we’re going to take one more break from another amazing sponsor. And then we come back. We’re going to have a little fun. I’m going to ask you some questions that have never been asked to a politician before. No, I have no idea. I got to think of that during the break. You’re with Anthony Sabatini. I’m Adam Degraide. Stay tuned. Here’s another important message from another sponsor. We’ll be right back.

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Adam DeGraide:
We’re back with Anthony Sabatini, also known as the Florida Elon Musk. No.

Anthony Sabatini:
Yeah, I wish.

Adam DeGraide:
Well, exactly right. Don’t we all? When you’re a politician or when you’re a host of a show or when you give public speeches in general, you’re bound to have an awkward moment. Has that ever happened to you? What’s the most awkward thing that has ever happened to you on a campaign? Did you forget someone’s name? Did you… I’m always curious about that. Because we see it with our current president. We see a lot of awkward moments. We’ve seen awkward moments with people all over the years.

Anthony Sabatini:
The most difficult, most awkward thing you’ll have on a campaign is when you’re conflicting with members of your own party. Parties are like teams. And what happens is once you’re elected from that party, whether it be this party or that party, it’s sort of presumed, especially by power brokers, political power brokers that you must remain in lockstep with members of your party. And so when you’re campaigning and people are like, well about this and that and how did this person vote or what’s going on with this bill? And you’re having to criticize your own party. Well, they failed on this.

Adam DeGraide:
Yeah. It’s got to be tough.

Anthony Sabatini:
Oh, it’s real tough.

Adam DeGraide:
The number one rule in business. It’s like, you want to be polite towards your competitor. You want to tell people why you’re different, but you don’t want to have to be smashing them all the time. Right. I mean, some people do that.

Anthony Sabatini:
Yeah.

Adam DeGraide:
And they actually hurt themselves because their customers are like, come on, we chose you don’t have to beat these people up. And I would imagine that’s got to be weird because it happens to you and it happens to others about you.

Anthony Sabatini:
Yeah.

Adam DeGraide:
So you’re forced to criticize somebody. How do you… After that happens, how do you guys make up and stay tight as a party? I think you’re on the same team.

Anthony Sabatini:
Well I just always try to keep everything based on principle. For me, it’s always about bills, issues, policy, how do we get this policy enacted? And if people are standing in the way, I’m going to be honest about that and that’s fine. But at the end of the day, if you can pivot it back to the policy, everything’s usually good. So in campaigns, this happens a lot because you’re differentiating yourself from other people in politics and other in the party and you’re having to try to point to, or respond to failures and other policies or politicians that set you apart. And this just happens all the time. And so that’s an awkward thing that happens on the campaign trail a lot.

Adam DeGraide:
I can imagine. One of the other things that businesses struggle with Anthony is positive reviews. So what ends up happening is you have a product and a service, right? Somebody comes in, they either use it or they don’t use it. Somebody gives them a one star review, right? Now the business owner can’t sleep at night. They’re trying to figure out how do we make it right for that customer. You got to get 15 positive to every negative. That’s actually the way it works by the way, mathematically for businesses. So if my business gets a negative review, I need 15 positive ones to counteract that one negative one, because people are more likely to believe the negative about individuals and businesses than they are to believe the positive. When you’re in a campaign and you’re in a party and you have positions that 50% of the people don’t agree with, you’re constantly getting bombarded with you’re this, you’re that, I can’t stand them, blah, blah, blah.

Adam DeGraide:
How do you deal with that, A, to get positive ones, but more importantly, personally? It has to affect you to some degree, especially if there’s somebody that either A, voted for you in the past or is currently a part of your party and they’re not necessarily psyched about it. How do you deal with that? What advice do you give to others? Because it seems like you would have more of it than most people.

Anthony Sabatini:
At the end of the day, the best thing you can do to be successful when it comes to elections and campaigning is to just be passionate and direct and truthful about what it is you believe and what happens is no matter what negative energy comes into the campaign or any business, no matter what said or whatever, if you’re delivering a good product, if you’re honest about it, passionate about it and putting it out there and people like it, everything else just falls by the wayside and it’s happened.

Anthony Sabatini:
I mean, people always ask me, oh, politics is sort of brutal and bitter or negative, does it ever get to you? Not really because I don’t stop to think about the negativity. I’m always thinking about the next thing, which is trying to push a certain idea or policy or law into action or win a campaign. That’s what it’s about. As long as you’re focused on what you’re actually there for, what your purpose is, this other negative stuff just doesn’t bother you. It really does. I think it probably bothers people who aren’t focused. You got to stay really focused on delivering the best product and that’s it.

Adam DeGraide:
Yeah. Over the years we’ve had, in my several different companies that I’ve run, I’ve had, obviously most of them have been positive comments and then obviously you have negative ones. Sometimes it’s from competitors. In your case, people running against you could be leaving reviews or paying people to leave review. I don’t know, even know how they do that, but they probably do. Businesses do that to each other all the time. And so, one of the things that I would always try to do is, as a business owner, is this person really a customer, right? If they are, then I pay attention to it, right? If I can’t validate whether I have ever run into this individual or worked with them for real. But if they’re describing things that are things that I know that identifies them as a client of mine, I’ve always find it very helpful to say, okay, is there any validity to what they’re saying in this and deal with it internally as a company and not hide it.

Adam DeGraide:
Because a lot of businesses, they try to hide stuff and they try to run from the negativity and that never works either. And so I like to run at a problem, face it head on. And so if you’re a business owner and you’ve got a negative review, don’t be so stubborn to think that it’s not valuable. Okay. But to Anthony’s point, if you don’t know this person, or if you don’t know they’re really a customer, you can’t let that work bother you because if you know what you know, you’re going to stay focused on what you do know. But if you do know you had an issue, deal with it, make amends, say you’re sorry. And the best part about it is you can grow from there because ignoring it, burying your head in the sand, doesn’t do anybody any good on a business perspective. Now, do you have any personal things that you collect or anything that you enjoy as a hobby?

Anthony Sabatini:
Me and my wife drink wine. A lot of good wine. We’re big wine people.

Adam DeGraide:
I just went to Napa. I just went to Napa. I don’t know if you saw that, I went to Napa, was amazing.

Anthony Sabatini:
That’s awesome. Yeah. We’re big wine people. So I always have a small collection of wine. That’s big for me. In fact, I sold wine for years before I got into politics. It was an interesting transition. I went from running a small wine store and being a assistant sommelier in a big restaurant, big restaurant, selling a lot of wine too, going to law school and in politics. So different profession, but similar things going on.

Adam DeGraide:
yeah. I just had the privilege and honor of touring the Hess winery. As a matter of fact, I’ll show a few pictures right now. It’s a pretty cool place because if you learn about it back in the prohibition, Anthony, not to get political, but this is a little political. They banned alcohol, but there was three types of individuals that were still allowed to make alcohol in America. Most people don’t realize that. One was the church. So they couldn’t stop the Catholic church from making the wine for their Eucharistical ceremonies. Second one was small family vineyards that had existed. They were allowed to make a small batch because they’d done it for centuries and they were grandfathered in, but they couldn’t sell it or distribute it. And the third was doctors because medicinal purposes, you were allowed to use alcohol back then.

Adam DeGraide:
And I was fascinated when I went to Hess to realize that Hess, that beautiful winery that’s up there on that hill is actually leased from the Christian brothers church right above it. And so the actual land in the vineyard itself was operated by the church back then and Hess came in, did a hundred year lease with them and turned it into what it is today, the Hess Pearson Estates. You learn so much about life over wine. You learn so much about people when you’re drinking wine. And the cool thing about the Hess is it basically has nice vineyards, nice sellers. It’s got a museum of fine art, that’s there. Have you gone on any tours of any wineries that are memorable to you?

Anthony Sabatini:
Oh yeah. I’ve been to about 50 wineries. We did our whole honeymoon. Me and my wife did our honeymoon in Santa Barbara, Paso Robles, Monterey, Napa. We did the whole coast. Every region in California. We just did Santa Barbara last week and another 20-

Adam DeGraide:
Have you ever been to Alma Rosa in Santa Barbara?

Anthony Sabatini:
Love Alma Rosa. Yeah. It’s a great, great vineyard. Well tasting room and Solvang too but it’s a great, great wine.

Adam DeGraide:
I love Solvang. If you’ve never been to Solvang folks, you got to go check it out. It’s like you were in a little different mini country. As a matter of fact, Arrested Development. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that sitcom. It’s one of my favorite sitcoms Arrested Development used to have, I forget what it was, what they called it, but it was this little town and Mary Poppins would come flying down at night and it was based off of Solvang. Fascinating stuff. Do you like red more than white or do you not care? Is it more of temperature time of day thing for you?

Anthony Sabatini:
Yeah. It’s all about food and temperature. I love red, white, sparkling. I like sweet wine. I like all dry wine. I like everything all depends on the occasion, but my favorite regions are definitely Santa Barbara, California, pinot noir or Chardonnay, and then classic, classic Bordeaux from France. A good big dry red cabernet.

Adam DeGraide:
Yeah. One of my favorite region is the montrachet. So the Puligny-Montrachet. I love the white. I love the white Chardonnays from France. They’re awesome. Anyway, I’m getting thirsty. I don’t know if you’re getting thirsty.

Anthony Sabatini:
It’s too early to have a glass of wine for me. It’s not even one here.

Adam DeGraide:
But you got me all fired up. I just came back from Napa. I was so done with wine, but as we’re sitting there talking about it, I’m like, eh, maybe I can squeeze a little bit out. One of the things we talk about here on David Versus Goliath is courage, right? If you know the story of David, the shepherd boy, he was offered king Saul’s armor, said I don’t need it. Went down to the river. He knew he was called by in this case, his God to go and take on this Philistine giant, he grabs five smooth stones from the water, grabs a Slingshot goes out on that battlefield. Nobody else would do it. And he slung that one stone it took for him, into the Giant’s head, decapitated the giant, held the head up. You get the whole point. It’s a great story. Little violent, but it’s a real story in the Bible and I liken the most important thing to life is around the word courage.

Adam DeGraide:
The stone that I believe slayed Goliath was courage. In your life personally, there’s a lot of factors that go involved in starting your own business or in your case, a campaign. What was the intangible for you, that gave you the courage to say, I’m going to do this. I’m going to become a public servant.

Anthony Sabatini:
Well, I just felt that the country for me was fundamentally changing in ways that I didn’t think were good. And I thought that the country was going to… Basically the core of this country, the declaration of independence, which is sort of the spirit that animates our constitution, which is a system of freedom and the rule of law and equality before the law. And most of all, self-governance. Letting people run their own lives, letting the people’s voice be heard in their own government, not bureaucrats, not special interests, not people who are outside the political system, but the people themselves being able to be in control of their own lives in their own country. I felt that those principles were being dispensed and forgotten. So that’s what made me get into politics. And that’s what animates me every day is a belief in freedom and a belief in people being able to run their own lives, their own communities, and trying to protect that, at all costs from all different types of threats. That’s the fundamental principle for me. And that’s the thing that got me involved.

Adam DeGraide:
That’s awesome. Now, obviously it involves family members and friends and people that know you. Before you decided to do that, did you have conversations with them and pick their brain on whether they were okay with it or not? Or is this something that you just-

Anthony Sabatini:
A little, a little. I was living out of the state of Florida where I grew up. I was living in New York, working in the wine industry and doing some National Guard stuff too. And just kind of somewhat aimless, but really enjoying my life in my early twenties. When one day, it was in the summer, I read a book, it was just a biography of Abraham Lincoln, sort of a cliche story, but true. And I was reading it and I just thought, wow, I’d like to go to law school and get involved in politics.

Adam DeGraide:
That is a great story by the way. I have been on an Abraham Lincoln binge, I read the a pictorial historical book. Matter of fact, I’ll show a few pictures of the book I was reading. It’s pretty cool. This is it right now. You’re seeing it. Where you could look at where he grew up. And he went to law school, came from nothing. And then, I read a lot of his biographies. I read one Brian Kilmeade’s book. Was it Brian Kilmeade’s? Somebody’s book, I think, on that. I’ve always been fascinated with Lincoln and his story. And I just think that anything great, anybody who does anything great, anybody who’s truly loved is equally hated. Everything, any great musical artist you could think of, you could find just as many people who don’t like them as those who do love them.

Adam DeGraide:
Right? You could find, for example, I’ll name a band Nickelback. Half of you were saying, I love Nickelback. Half of you were saying, that’s the worst rock band in the world. Michael Jackson, all these names of these famous things over the years. And these famous people, whether it’s Reagan or JFK or Clinton or Obama, they have visceral reaction on typically on both sides. And that’s what makes something very, very unique and memorable.

Adam DeGraide:
And this has been awesome, having you on DVG. For small business owners, in your districts. Do you have any message for them? What you want to do when you go to help them and fight for them? I normally don’t do like political speeches, but here’s your chance. Right now on DVG, we believe big time, Anthony, in the small business, supporting them, loving them. We believe that the backbone of America. We believe that they need to have as much restrictions removed from them to continue to have their growth. Speak directly to small business owners of Florida, because you’ll be eventually representing us if you go up in to Congress, you currently represent small business owners, go ahead and do your thing.

Anthony Sabatini:
Well, I think that this country, at this point, we have so many giant conglomerates and large businesses that dominate so much of our public policy, so much of what’s going on. They control the tax code. They control everything, all of the laws to benefit themselves. We have totally forgotten about small business.

Anthony Sabatini:
My goal would be to push policies that do everything they can to make it easy to start a small business and allow small businesses to flourish. Because at the end of the day, you can’t be free if you’re in the vice group of these larger, more powerful entities, these giant corporations. Nobody wants to be a cog in the wheel. We need small businesses to flourish. We need more of them and we need them to be able to just continue to grow and spread their vision. They’re the caretakers of the community. They’re the ones that take care of their own employees and do amazing things. And so I’m always going to fight for small business. I always have. I always will. I think it’s the key to a free independent American future is one where you have a lot of flourishing, small businesses.

Adam DeGraide:
And you know what I think is really important. And maybe you can look into this. My whole life as a small business owner, Anthony, it has been so difficult to get access to capital and to get loans. I’m not just talking about SBA government loans. I’m talking about loans through a traditional bank. We watched the movies of these old businesses that would go sit down and the small business would pitch their idea and the bank would say, okay, great. What collateral do you have? All right. It’s not going to cover it, but we believe in you and they would fund it. And that’s how those communities grown good luck today. The way a small business charge to go in and try to get a loan, a traditional loan it’s virtually impossible. And those access to capital is very difficult.

Adam DeGraide:
So, hey, that’s just my little shout for you to know from a guy who’s a serial entrepreneur who funds his own businesses on himself, which I’m totally fine doing, because in a lot of ways, that’s good too. If you take money from somebody, you probably owe them something. But at the end of the day, it is important that we look at how can we get more capital to the smaller guy as well too.

Adam DeGraide:
I’m not talking about the same amount of money. Obviously, you’ll be proportionate, but there’s got to be things. And I know they’re going to say that there’s a lot. But when you look into how these things are structured, they limit it big time, to certain types of people, certain groups of people, certain ways, certain communities you have to be in. There’s all this red tape that’s involved there versus just like, hey, this mom and pop has a great idea. They’ve shown some miles of success. Let’s get behind him and help them. Right? So that’s my admonition to you on my little Diddy here, my advocacy here for a small business. I’m a big believer in small business here on DVG. And it’s been awesome having you, you had a good time today?

Anthony Sabatini:
It’s been great. I appreciate you having me on. And hopefully people see the similarities between campaigns and small businesses and they read about or learn, learn a little bit more about campaigns and electioneering, because there’s a lot to learn from.

Adam DeGraide:
I have learned a ton, Anthony, and as I started to talk with you and others that I know that have been involved in the process, I kept saying to myself, I don’t think it’s fair that they say you’ve never run a business because you have run businesses. They’re just different. And I think the most amazing thing about it is you sharing your story, the practical advice. If every small business watching and listening to this podcast just did from a marketing perspective, training perspective, what Anthony does with this campaign, you cannot help but be successful. And that’s what you get here on the David Versus Goliath podcast. Education, inspiration and activation. I’m your host, Adam Degraide. Thank you so much for joining us this week. We’ll see you next time.