Grow Your Business! The All Stars – Q2 Part 2 – David Vs Goliath – e44

Adam DeGraide: 

Coming up today on David versus Goliath, The All Stars part two, where you get the hits and nothing but the hits. 

Anthony Sabatini: 

You want to create a successful business, you’re trying to serve customers. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

I don’t want to die next to someone like you. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Well, why should I brush my teeth? It’s just going to get dirty again. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

No, that’s not going to fly. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Don’t become bitter, become better. When you do it makes a big difference, how you do it makes a big difference and your support network makes a big difference. 

Brandy Whalen: 

Nobody’s an average human, we all have something. 

Speaker 1: 

Welcome to today’s episode of David versus Goliath, a podcast dedicated to helping small businesses, leverage technology to not only help them compete against their large competitors, but win. Your host is currently the CEO of Anthem Business Software, a three time Inc. 500 recipient and a serial entrepreneur with a passion to help small businesses everywhere find, serve and keep more customers profitably. Please join me in welcoming your host, Adam DeGraide. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Hey everyone, it’s Adam DeGraide. I am so excited for this week. This is quarter two, The All Stars part two, where you get the hits and nothing but the hits on David versus Goliath podcast. Today’s episode is brought to you by Anthem Software, where you can find, serve, and keep more customers profitably and they’re all in one solution of CRM software, marketing services and a training lab that helps you grow your business with great tips and tricks. Don’t forget that it’s built specifically for small business. Every business has a song, let their software and marketing system sing yours. Visit nthemsoftware.com for a 120 second tour. Also don’t forget davidvsgoliath podcast.com. There you can subscribe to receive newsletters about the podcast as well as apply to beyond the podcast. And many of the guests that you hear over the last few weeks and even into the future have done exactly that. They’ve gone to the website, they’ve filled out the application, they get vetted by my team and then voila, bingo, they end up on the show and it’s been awesome having them on there. 

Adam DeGraide: 

So don’t forget, my book is available on Amazon, in Barnes and Noble, the children’s book and it’s written to teach kids about bravery, gratitude and attentiveness, check it out. I think you’ll find it to be fun. 

Adam DeGraide: 

And last week it was a musical extravaganza and this week is going to be no different. I am so excited because we are right around the corner from having my rock project released and available for people to stream and listen to and buy if they want to, or just add it to their playlist and enjoy it in a couple of weeks. The project I decided to name is called The ADAM Project, which stands for Artists Developing Awesome Music. And so it’s ADAM project and that’s what it stands for, and it’s going to be called Apex Rising. When my wife gave me the idea that she said, “Hey, you should be making these musical albums. You spend years, you’ve never done solo projects.” I said, “I want to do a rock project, but I don’t have a lot of angst. I’m not a teenager anymore. I love rock and roll music. I don’t really have anything serious that I want to say in my music.” 

Adam DeGraide: 

And I’m like, “Well, what if I made an album based on my favorite thing I like to do in my personal life?” Which is a game called Apex Legends. There’s a game by EA that’s called Apex Legends, has about 200 million players. It’s a Battle Royal. And yes, I might be the oldest person playing it, but I absolutely love it. So therefore I decided to create a seven song EP inspired by the game and the characters in it. And I picked seven characters that I enjoy playing and I wrote songs about them. Last week in last week’s episode, I previewed Pathfinder and I previewed a song called Light Up the Sky, which is about Gibraltar. This week I’m going to share with you two other tracks. 

Adam DeGraide: 

This one you’re about to hear right now is a song about my character that I main in the game. Now, when I say I main the game, that means I play this character more than anyone else. It’s a character called Mirage. It’ll make sense to many of my watchers and listeners. Mirage, he really likes himself. He’s not the brightest cat in the world, but he’s funny, and at the end of the day, it’s all about him. And he can go invisible, create duplicates of himself. You think he’s there, he is not there. It’s wild. It helps an old guy like me stay ahead when I’m fighting these young guys online, because I can bamboozle them and I’m convinced that this is the first song ever recorded with the word bamboozled in it. It’ll be out in a couple of weeks. Here is a song entitled Me, Myself and I inspired by Mirage. Enjoy. 

Adam DeGraide: 

And that was a little bit of Me, Myself and I. Did you guys hear that choir, “You’ve been bamboozled”? It was so much fun recording that. As a matter of fact, here’s a few pictures of us recording it that day. That’s up there right now. It’s so much fun. Keep your eyes out, it’s called ADAM Project Apex Rising and it should be out soon. It’s going to be a ton of fun. Little bit later on in the episode, I’ll show you another one as well, too. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Well with no further ado, I’ve had enough self-aggrandizing comments at this point in time, let’s get into the hits with my guests here on the second quarter, 2022 All Stars part two. The first up is a gentleman by the name of Anthony Sabatini. We discussed the business of politics. Here’s Anthony. 

Adam DeGraide: 

I mean, campaigns are like micro-businesses in general. I mean you have to motivate people, you have to have a plan and goals, you have to leverage technology, you have to have process in which you and the people in the team are leveraging that technology. And then you have to have courage to actually decide you’re going to run and build a team around you. In your experience, I mean, you and I were talking about this, how does that feel to you? Does that strike you as something to be an accurate statement or do you think I’m overstating the fact that it’s a micro-business? 

Anthony Sabatini: 

Well, I think a lot of successful business people, I’m going to try to draw the out between politics and business people, when you want to create a successful business, you’re trying to serve customers, you’re trying to serve consumers. You’re trying to provide something that you think makes people’s lives better than what it was. And politics is somewhere in the sense of you’re trying to commit public service, you’re trying to do something to improve the lives of others. And so what brought me into politics was the fact that I thought I could help people. I love this country, I wanted to serve this country. I have a set of principles that are very popular where I run and I think do improve the lives of the people that I serve and running a campaign and being involved in politics is a lot like running a business in the sense of you’re constantly trying to serve people. If their taste change, if they’re interested in something, if they’re trying to get something to happen, you need to be listening and reacting to that. 

Anthony Sabatini: 

And that’s one of the reasons why I find politics so interesting is as new problems emerge in society, people from across the political spectrum need to find ways to react to these issues and come up with new solutions. And so that’s what’s kept me in it. I’ve been in six years and did two years as a city commissioner, four years in the state house, I’ve just been lucky enough to see constantly open seats and new opportunities to serve. And now there’s an open congressional race here in Central Florida and so I’m running for that. But for me, it’s just about public service and stepping in to fill that need when there’s an opening. 

Adam DeGraide: 

I have been on an Abraham Lincoln binge. I read a pictorial historical book and matter of fact, I’ll show a few pictures of the book I was reading, it’s pretty cool. This is it right now, you’re seeing it. You can look at where he grew up and he went to law school, came from nothing. And then I read a lot of his biographies, I read one, Brian Kilmeade’s book. Was it Brian Kilmeade’s? Somebody’s book I think on that and I’ve always been fascinated with Lincoln and his story. And I just think that anything great, anybody who does anything great, anybody who’s truly loved is equally hated. Any great musical artist you could think of, you could find just as many people who don’t like them as those who do love them, right? For example I’ll name a band, Nickelback. Half of you were saying, “I love Nickelback,” half of you were saying, “That’s the worst rock band in the world.” Michael Jackson, all these names of these famous things over the years, and these famous people, whether it’s Reagan or JFK or Clinton or Obama, they have visceral reaction typically on both sides. And that’s what makes something very, very unique and memorable. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Anthony, thank you so much for being on the episode. For those that are interested, that was episode 37 and Anthony is a great guy, we wish him the best. And hopefully he wins and takes his ideas to Washington DC with him. Well, following that interview with Anthony Sabatini was a powerful woman that I’ve worked with, I had the pleasure to work alongside for many years. Her name is Kelly Donahue. She is the founder, president CEO of Agency Performance Partners. One of the sharpest people, one of the best trainers I’ve ever worked with in my life, here is Kelly Donahue, enjoy. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Over the years now you’ve consulted hundreds, maybe even thousands at this point considering you look at the astonished relationships as well, what is the one ingredient that you’ve seen, where you walk into a situation and you know they’re going to be successful? You can talk to that business owner and you say, “Ah, I’ve got a chance of really making a difference,” what is that intangible that you find? 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Yeah, I mean, everything that you said, and I’ll add one more log on that fire is that they’re committed to their goals for their life, for their family’s lifestyle, for the legacy that they want to leave above and beyond all the discomfort that’s going to take to get there. So it may take 80 hour weeks, it may take firing your sister, it may take going ahead and saying, “Yes, you’ve had this accounting person forever, but they’re doing a terrible job.” So it’s the willingness to get so uncomfortable because what you want to achieve is so important to you that you’ll go through that discomfort. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah. I remember I would do a couple of talks, as you know, we would do the CEO groups and one of the parts of the actual talk I would get to the end and I would say, “At some point, guys, you might have the wrong person in your business and it might be your cousin, your uncle, your brother, your nephew. And if you’re going to pay them just because they’re family members, you’re better off at not having them answer the phone, not having them actually work in the agency, just put them in the back, put them in the back and tell them to research how much tea there is in China, or Subway’s hiring, right? So there’s an application. They can get that.” 

Adam DeGraide: 

But it is interesting to see how difficult that can be because when you are consulting small business, I have never stopped working with small business, it’s been my passion since I started my first company and even Anthem today that I’m running now, we care so much about small business, but those are the difficult decisions that sometimes have to be made, right? You might have the wrong people in the wrong seats, or you just might have the wrong people. And people is one of the pillars of success in a business. What advice do you give them? How do you practically help somebody that has decided they have somebody in there that they love, but they really don’t belong there? How do you coach them through that? 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Well, I’ll tell you it’s been the biggest heartbreaks in me owning my own business. People that you could afford to have on when we first started, right? Because you can’t afford seven figures, six figure salaries. You just can’t, you got to bootstrap so you can afford the entry level talent. And they’re very loyal, they’re very good people. Doesn’t mean I don’t want to have a drink with them, but as the business grows, you outgrow them, right? And it is really hard because you feel, “Hey, I’m loyal to them. They got me to where I am.” But I also know I’ve given them every other chance to get trained, to take the next ring, to develop, to go that next mile and not everybody wants that. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

And the heartbreaking thing is that this is business, this isn’t friendship, this isn’t anything else and sometimes you have to part ways of people that have been great to you, but they’re no longer the right fit for the role. And I coach a lot of owners to say think of yourself like a CEO, not an insurance agent or a small business owner, that your job is to be the steward of the resources of that business. You need to hold yourself accountable. And if you have resources that are not maximized, that are overpaid, that are not supporting everybody else, you’re going to lose the rest of them. So, it’s a hard thing to fire somebody who’s been with you from the start, but they’re just not cutting it. And I second that with, you need to know the metrics of your business because the numbers don’t have feelings. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah. So what are some of the metrics that you actually try to uncover with an agency or any small business? 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is every job description has to have KPIs, right? How are you measuring this person? Doesn’t matter if you’re the receptionist, you got to pick up in two rings, right? That’s a KPI. You can’t let phones go to voicemail, whatever it is, there’s metrics for everything. It helps with clarity on the employee’s end to know what’s expected of them and it helps you identify, are they doing a good job? Because I think another challenge you have in small businesses, and I think you’ll identify with this, is you’re running around and there’s fires burning every single day, right? I’m sure in all of our emails right now, Adam, you and me there’s fires burning right there, right? 

Adam DeGraide: 

I’ve got 46,000 unread ones. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Yeah, perfect. So you’re in a different stratosphere of where the fires are. And the hardest part is that there’s fires burning everyday but there’s good things that happen everyday. And as again, the leader of the organization, you’re a firefighter, you got to put out fires, you got to be a fire preventer, but you also have to celebrate those wins because people need to feel winning. And when you have a culture that’s winning, they want to win more, it’s like an addiction. When you have a culture where it’s kind of like, this is broken, this is broken, this is broken, this is broken, and it is broken, we’re growing, we’re going to break everything. We’re going to break windows and glass and people and dishes. Everything’s going to break in the next five years if you’re growing. 

Adam DeGraide: 

You’ve been on the road for years. What is the worst day you’ve ever had? 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Oh my gosh. You’re going to think less of me, but I’m just going to say it because I think you’ll understand. So I get kind of crispy towards like December, it’s the holidays it’s like- 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, you’re fried, you’re fried. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

I’m fried. And it’s like the break is coming, but I’m fried. So again, I was in one of my drinking phases at that point in time. So I was in the sky lounge and the flight keeps getting delayed. So every delay, it’s like, “Well, let’s have another drink, let’s have another drink.” So I’m not saying I was in my top form. So I was- 

Adam DeGraide: 

Clearly not in your top form. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Currently in puddle form. But I’m doing it, I’m doing it, I’m doing it. I’m like, “Fine, whatever.” So it looks like we’re go. I go down to the gate, everybody, it’s like 11:30 at night, everything’s in pandemonium. Everyone’s going to get in at 2:00 AM, no one’s happy. It’s Christmas time, blah, blah, blah. But I’m immune to this stuff because I’m like, the plane was broken, I don’t want to get on a broken plane. This is part of life. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

So I sit down next to this woman, I’m waiting to get them ready to board and she’s just gone crazy. She’s like hitting me and I just don’t like when people touch me that I don’t know. And so she’s like, “Can you believe this? Can you believe this?’ And I’m like, “Yeah, I can, the plane was broken.” And I just like put my earpods in and I’m like, so don’t talk to me because I’m done, like I’m done. And she’s just like, “This is an outrage. I’m going to demand I get in first class.” I’m like, “That’s not going to work. Nope. I’m in first class, it’s just not going to work. You should just take a Xanax. You should just chill.” So she keeps going and going and going. And she’s like, “Well, I’m outraged.” And I was like, “You know what? I’m sorry. I’m not going to get on this airplane. You might get my first class seat because if the airplane goes down, I don’t want to die next to someone like you.” And I walked away and based on my half in a puddle, I was just the biggest rudest human. I can’t go back there and I don’t know where I’m going to go because I can’t get on that airplane. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, so what did you do, end up having to go find a hotel, stumble around the city? 

 Kelly Donahue: 

No, I went to Delta and this is why I’m such a Delta loyalist. I went to Delta and I was like, “Listen, I’m diamond. I did something I’m not very proud of and I need to know how this can be settled up.” She’s like, “No problem. Here’s a hotel room. We got you in a first class plane seat tomorrow morning. It happens to people who travel as much as you.” So I didn’t pay for hotel room, I didn’t do anything. And I just walked away and I called my husband, I was like, “I’m not coming home today.” He’s like, “Oh, is the plane not taking off?” I was like, “No, not exactly. I was just really rude.” 

Adam DeGraide: 

Not exactly. That’s a great story. I have so many bad stories, but one of them just recently happened. We were flying back from… Oh, where the heck were we flying from? Oh yeah. We were flying from California, from San Francisco. And on the way back from San Francisco, pilot comes on and says there’s a medical emergency. 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Ugh, mid flight or on the ground? 

Adam DeGraide: 

Mid flight, so we have to land. We land in Memphis and they basically wheeled this dude that I guess he died in the flight, it was terrible. And then everyone is basically on the flight. They keep us on the plane and then all these people come in with hazmat suits on saying, “Just a few minutes, we got to clean the plane.” I’m saying, “Should I be in a hazmat suit?” 

 Kelly Donahue: 

Like full on burner? 

Adam DeGraide: 

No amount of Dr. Fauci masks are going to work in that scenario. Kelly, thank you so much for being a part of the David versus Goliath podcast. Well, it’s come to the time where we have to take our first break from our corporate sponsor Anthem Software. So we’ll be right back in a second. Here’s an important message. 

Speaker 1: 

Anthem Business Software System is designed to specifically help small businesses just like yours find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. We do this by providing you with the most powerful software automations and marketing services to help your business compete and win in this ever-changing digital world. Take a short video tour at anthemsoftware.com 

Adam DeGraide: 

And we’re back with the David versus Goliath second quarter, All Stars. My gosh, this is going to be crazy as I go throughout the year. Second quarter 2022 All Stars, nothing but the hits here. Part two on the David versus Goliath podcast. Now I also promise some calmer music. As you guys may have known those who watched the podcast regularly, I came out with a solo project as well that was the exact opposite of the project I showed you in the beginning of this podcast. And it’s a project called The Calm it’s designed to just help you take it down a notch. And so here’s a little bit of the track called Just Another Day. You can find this on Apple, Spotify, wherever you stream music here is Just Another Day, Adam DeGraide, The Calm. 

Adam DeGraide: 

And that was peaceful, no doubt about it. I wrote that song because it kind of felt like my days, and if you listen to the whole thing, it’ll make sense. It’s got mystery, it’s got brightness, it’s got sad parts, it’s got surprises. That’s kind of why I called it Just Another Day. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Well, we had a surprise guest on on episode 39. She didn’t give me her last name, but I know it now it’s Paul. It was Heather, the hygienist from Simply Silver Mouthwash. She was a hoot, a blast. Here she is.

Adam DeGraide: 

Now you’re still a hygienist for 25 years so you still go to work and then you’re running this really cool brand on the side. You probably work some dental shows I would imagine. I might have even seen you at one when I was in the medical space, my last company we worked with, I think, 50 dentist office and we helped them with their marketing, their email, their CRM, their social media, their websites. And I sold that company so I’m not allowed to work with dentist office right now, but I did see similar things and similar products when I was at those events. For the watchers and listeners, how difficult is it right now for you to balance the two and where are you exactly at in that tweener development as an entrepreneur? 

Heather Paul: 

Yeah, that’s a great question. So I feel like I’m kind of on the verge of some really, really big things happening, but also the challenge being an entrepreneur and specifically in the oral care business is when you’re trying to get into larger stores, like your Wholefoods or Sprouts, they only do a category review once a year. So you get one time a year- 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, one shot. 

Heather Paul: 

One shot. And then if you don’t get in, you wait until the next year. So I’m at that point where I’m really tired of just waiting on these big companies, I’m taking it into my own hands. And that’s why I’m really glad that you have appreciated my branding because that’s what I’m trying to do. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, you’re doing a good job. I would tell you, believe me, I’d be the first one to tell you if I didn’t think you were going in the right direction. 

Heather Paul: 

Yeah. So I’m trying to create a landing page. I have my book Dentistry for Gummies, but I’m also going to be branding that more as an ebook and try to bring awareness through maybe TikTok or more Instagram reels and try and bring in more organic business through just getting my brand out there. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, I think you can definitely do that. I still run a marketing company, I run Anthem Software and we do- 

Heather Paul: 

Which I checked out by the way. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Oh, you should check it out. Yeah, definitely. And we actually could work with you. But that’s not the point. The point is when I looked at your brand and I looked at the photos, your photographer did a great job capturing the spirit of what you’re trying to do. And I encourage the watchers and listeners of all shapes and sizes in the business to go check out what she did on her website. Because I tell people, “If you have a great personality and you look decent on camera and you run a business, you should probably be on camera. But if you don’t really like people and you don’t have a great personality and your spouse has told you’re not the best looking thing in the world, maybe you’ll get a spokesperson.” 

Adam DeGraide: 

But what I loved about your business is it’s your passion. And so what’ll start the brand for you, Heather, as you grow and as you continue is going to be you. And so to your point, you can’t sit around and wait for somebody to make your dreams happen, you have to do it yourself. 

Adam DeGraide: 

I find this fascinating. I find humanity in general fascinating, because you would assume that a hygienist that is concerned about cleanliness and the health of the mouth would be concerned about cleanliness everywhere. So one of the questions we have on this little sheet here for people when they come on is, “Do you collect anything?” And you said, “Honestly, as I think about this one, I must be totally boring. Other than my house collecting dust, because I hate to dust, I would say no.” And I say to myself, this is fascinating, humans in general are fascinating. So cleanliness to you, anti-dusting of the teeth is critical, but dust around the house, not a big deal? So how would you describe that to people? 

Heather Paul: 

I am a clean freak really, I just don’t like dusting. I just hate it. But I do it. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Why do you hate dusting? Is it a little tick or something? Because dusting to me is kind of like you’re just moving things around. 

Heather Paul: 

To me, it’s kind of pointless because it’s just going to settle right back. So it’s kind of like, why am I wasting my time? 

Adam DeGraide: 

Well, why should I brush my teeth? It’s just going to get dirty again. 

Heather Paul: 

No, that’s not going to fly. 

Adam DeGraide: 

There’s a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt that surrounds people that have that burning desire. They know they’re supposed to do something besides what they’re doing, right? And even non-Christians and people that aren’t religious have this by the way because I believe God talks to everyone. And I believe that people are given these ideas and these sparks of wisdom and enlightenment for the betterment of their families and the betterment of society at large. But there’s something that happens in that person where they can get gripped with fear and they never move forward. Now for you, it was just purely the fact that you knew you were convinced and you heard from God, and that was what made you go forward, right? Am I assuming that correctly or was it something else? Was there another in for you that said, “I’m going to do this no matter what”? 

Heather Paul: 

That’s true. But there were times when I was like, “Did I really hear from him?” Because it was so difficult and like I said, I couldn’t manufacture in Florida and I did start to have a lot of doubt. Like, “Am I crazy? I mean, was this really from you, God?” And then I have a great friend, her husband is a pastor and I went to their prayer meeting one night and this lady that I didn’t know, she started to say the craziest thing. And she said it three times, she said, “Mega in the marketplace.” And she said, ‘Mega in the marketplace; three times. And then she looks at me and she goes, “I don’t know what you have, but God has said whatever it is, it’s mega in the marketplace.” And do you know, I have stood on that word because this woman didn’t know me from Adam and for her to say that- 

Adam DeGraide: 

No pun intended folks. 

Heather Paul: 

That didn’t even matter. 

Adam DeGraide: 

No pun intended. 

Heather Paul: 

No, no pun intended at all. But really, I have stood on that because I know that I am right where I’m supposed to be. And so sometimes things don’t work out the way that we think that they should. So maybe I need to let go of the whole Wholefoods and Sprouts thing because I have been trying so hard and focusing on- 

Adam DeGraide: 

I wouldn’t give up on it yet, but to your point- 

Heather Paul: 

I’m not giving up. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Don’t slow down. We don’t slow down vision because other people can’t see ours. 

Heather Paul: 

Right. 

Adam DeGraide: 

By the way, I’m going to say that again, you don’t slow down your vision because other people can’t see yours. You have to push through it because if you have vision and you have a direction, you walk in it and before you know it, you will get there. And the clouds do settle, the sun does go away, but just keep walking in that direction that you first found it. Before you know it, the clouds will clear, the sun will shine and then there you are, you’ll be in Wholefoods smiling with your silver product that is no longer the devil. And people are so crazy. I mean, honestly, one of the things I’ve learned in the last two years is most of us are nuts. I think that’s basically where I’m at, but there’s still hope because we can become sane once again and I believe that’s going to happen for our world and our society. You have to, otherwise what’s the point? 

Adam DeGraide: 

Heather, it was awesome having you on the David versus Goliath podcast. We can’t wait to have you back on. Well, the next one up on episode 40 was Armon Petrossian, the CEO and founder of Coalesce. If you love data, nobody loves data like Armon does. Here’s part of the interview. 

Armon Petrossian: 

Coalesce is what we call the only data transformation tool built for scale. There’s a big reason why we classify ourselves as that, largely in part to some of the design decisions and architectural decisions we made for our product. And there are beginning stages that’s unique to us. But ultimately where we’re focused and the problem we’re solving is all about taking data in its raw format and transforming it to the point where it’s actually consumable to have insights be driven out of the data, which is probably the largest bottleneck right now in analytics today are companies trying to be data driven. You’ve seen automation impact pretty much every sector of analytics. However, there’s this incredibly manual time consuming, expensive portion of where it comes to being data driven, which is largely transforming that data, taking it from that raw format, being able to prepare it in a way that’s then consumable. So we aim to do that. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, that definitely is a challenge. I mean, over the years, softwares that we’ve even used for our business and softwares that I’ve even built for our business, there’s so much data, but in some cases, the end user can’t access it or the business owner doesn’t know what to do with it. And so what you’re saying is that you built software to help take raw data, if I’m reading this correctly, when I went to visited your website, you’re taking raw data in, and then you’re giving programmers the tools they need to sift through the data quickly and effectively to program end user reports that mean something versus just having this raw data sit there and not be usable. 

Armon Petrossian: 

Yeah, pretty much exactly. Now you’ve seen the market evolve dramatically with the emergence of the cloud platforms like Snowflake and they gave access to users that was never possible before at a cost that is much lower than what traditional multi-parallel processing type platforms costed on-premise. Now, with that emergence of these incredibly powerful and scalable platforms, you’ve also seen automation for actually acquiring data. So getting data from source systems, whether it’s an API or an on-premise platform has become incredibly easy with the emergence of technologies like Fivetran, HBR. Where that leaves users is this next point where you’ve got all the data landed in the platform in its raw format. Now, how do we take it from that point with a dozen different data sources and blend it together and transform it in a way that’s then consumable by your dashboarding tools or your data science tools? That component, that singular component of taking the data after it’s been landed to the point where it’s consumable and it’s properly documented, has lineage is the hardest part the most time consuming part in analytics today. And that’s what we ventured out to solve. 

Armon Petrossian: 

Most organizations already have a team of people, whether it’s one person or a team of six, like you mentioned, and they’re looking for more to keep up with the demands from the business. And instead of having to go and try to recruit or find those resources that are pretty hard to find right now, those users in this whole per user licensing model would purchase Coalesce and be able to deliver as if they hired a dozen more people and scale a lot more efficiently and manage the project at scale. But it’s a pretty lightweight software. We don’t host any data, we don’t store any data. And so from a security concern, it’s quite easy to procure. It’s largely around, how do we make your existing team more productive so that you can be effective without going out and having to bring on people that you can’t find in the first place? 

Adam DeGraide: 

There’s one question on here. It says, “What has been your biggest failure and how did you overcome it?” And you said one of the biggest failures you had to overcome was your relationship with your dad. And you were talking about in the young adult in that relationship and how tense and transactional it was. 

Armon Petrossian: 

Yeah, definitely. 

Adam DeGraide: 

And I think a lot of podcasts would skip this, but to me at DVG, we always like to talk to the heart of the person as well, too. I mean, all of this stuff affects who we are in our life, right? How we were raised, who we were raised with. 

Armon Petrossian: 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously this hits home in many ways. And the biggest thing is understanding how to have and placing the importance on meaningful relationships, how to work with people and how certain individuals cooperate and communicate. And it shouldn’t come to any surprise that as an entrepreneur, you have difficulty with authoritarian figures, right? Where you’re a bit rebellious, you want to challenge the status quo. And as a result of that, a fond relationship can be compromised. 

Armon Petrossian: 

And as I got older, I realized that so much of relationships require true ownership for yourself as an individual and empathy, being able to understand what somebody else is going through, what direction they’re coming from, and ultimately taking ownership for any type of relationship, whether it’s your father, family member, a coworker. And throughout that rebellious phase, throughout those stages of life obviously a lot of things can be compromised and being able to get important relationships, whether it’s a father, mother, sibling, cousin, largely can fall into your laps. And if you take ownership of those relationships and are able to have empathy for people, it’s very possible to have a meaningful and successful relationship with anybody. And I think it’s obviously a humbling experience as a young individual going through certain emotions and experiences like that, and really taught me a lot of lessons and similar to you, I love my pops, amazing guy. We’ve got an amazing relationship. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, we’re not trying to crap on dads here, by the way, I am a dad. If you talk to my oldest son, Armand, he’s 27, I’m sure he’s got some things that he’s dealing with from me as well, too, right? I mean, but it’s real, right? These are real things that entrepreneurs deal with. And I think you said it great. I mean, I’ve always had a saying in my life that everybody has a story, okay? So the person that you come in contact today at your local coffee shop may treat you poorly. Before you overreact, which I have done, I don’t know if you’ve ever done that, overreact, take a beat and say, “Well, maybe they had a bad morning this morning. Maybe there’s something wrong in their story.” And it’s always trying to believe the best in people. 

Adam DeGraide: 

So I think what happened to me as a teenager is you start to look at your father and my dad was a very successful radio personality. And he was always on stage, he was very gregarious, but he struggled with some personal addiction issues and things that he publicly talks about so I’m not betraying his confidences as at all as well. But as I went through that, I was only looking at one part of my dad and was missing a lot of the positives in life, right? And so one of the best things in the world, my last business partner, Tim Sawyer, taught me and always used to say to me, and it hit me hardcore is you can’t love half a person. So you can’t just love them when they’re doing the things you like. Love is not necessarily being a punching bag, but you have to know, “I love this person. I’m going to believe the best in this person. And what is the positive I can try to find?” 

Adam DeGraide: 

Now so there’s some people, Armon, you know this and I know this, it’s hard to find anything in there that’s positive, right? And in some cases you got to wipe the dust off your sandals and move on. There’s no doubt about that. But if there is an element where the people you’re working with that are difficult, or yourself is difficult, but you’re at least open to having that discussion. There can be healing and there can be positive things that we glean. I’ve learned so much from my father. My dad is a radio hall of famer in New England. And look what I’m doing right now. I didn’t just wake up one day. This is a gift that I’ve seen him do his whole life, right? So I’m grateful for that. 

Adam DeGraide: 

But I think what I want to homage my viewers and my watchers and my listeners to think about is everyone deals with personal pain and it absolutely will affect you in your business life and your personal life. Do what you can to be the best person you can be, to heal those relationships, to forgive where forgiveness is necessary, to move on where moving on is necessary, but always do it with love and the spirit of kindness to your best of your ability. And if you do that, and by the way, because Armon, you’re going to learn this by the way, as you start to go in business and you become really successful, which I have no doubt in my mind you will, people that you think are your friends aren’t and people that you didn’t think were your friends are, and you find these things out as time goes on. However, don’t become bitter, become better. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Armon, thank you so much for being on the David versus Goliath podcast. Well, the time has come for another break from one of our amazing sponsors here at DVG, we’ll be right back. 

Speaker 2: 

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Adam DeGraide: 

And we’re back with our final segment on the second quarter, 2022 All Stars part two right here on David versus Goliath podcast. And as I promise you earlier on, there would be another track that I would show you from the ADAM Project, Apex Rising. This track is inspired by a character called Caustic. I’ll explain this track a little bit, because the lyrics are a little bit morbid. And truth be told, Caustic is a little bit of a morbid character. His name is Dr. Knox, he finds out he has cancer, he decides he’s going to go in a laboratory and create gas traps that really suffocate people to death during this game. I know it sounds crazy, but it’ll all makes sense if you take a look at the Caustic character of Apex Legends online. Here’s a track sung by Chris Jackson, I perform guitars on it. My brother also performs league guitar on it. I perform bass. My buddy Tyler Anderson performs the B3 Hammond. And this is a song called Breathe It In, here’s the beginning of it, enjoy. 

Adam DeGraide: 

That was Breathe It In by the ADAM Project, Apex Rising, which will be coming out soon. I’m so excited to show the world that. What I’m even more excited about right now is Daniel Schulof look at that, his picture is on this piece of paper. That’s Daniel, Daniel loves dogs, dogma and dog food. And he’s the founder and CEO of KetoNatural Pet Foods. Who knew that dogs eat low carb? I did because I interviewed Daniel. Here it is on episode 41, enjoy. 

Daniel Schulof: 

I was raised with dogs, my mother bred dogs when I was a kid and I’ve always liked dogs, but I got my very first my own dog around that same period of time as well. And he was a rottweiler. He’s since passed on, but he was like this big intense rottweilery rottweiler. And in order to make him a polite member of society, he had to get some daily bout of exhaustive exercise. 

Daniel Schulof: 

And two things basically happened as I was struggling to make sure he could get enough exercise to not kill anybody while also working 14 hours a day at this law firm. One is I found a toy that worked super well for dogs like him, that I realized wasn’t being marketed very well and that I could do it better. And I decided to basically see if I could set up a micro-business in the four hour work week style that was basically grounded around a similar but better version of that product. 

Daniel Schulof: 

And what it was is something that allowed the dog to exercise really effectively without people being involved. It’s like these huge hard plastic spheres, bigger than a basketball and for a dog like him and for other dogs that just have this neurosis where they just have to kill and dominate things, he could play with it by himself to exhaustion. You put it down outside and they try to wrestle with it with their paws, they can’t break it, they can’t get their jaws around it. And so it’s like they’re wrestling with another dog at the dog park by themselves. You could just check email or drink your coffee or whatever while it’s going on. 

Daniel Schulof: 

And then in the course of doing that as well, basically I came to understand how significant a problem the problem of obesity is among pets in the Western world. Obesity and exercise are kind of just like overlapping phenomena to some degree. And so as I was reading the literature regarding exercise and trying to understand how to exercise my dog better, I came upon facts about obesity and it just kind of blew me away. Basically there’s two facts whenever I talk about this, I highlight these two same facts. Number one is more than half the dogs and cats in the country right now are overweight or obese. So if you pick the next one you see at random, you’re more likely to find a overweight one than not. And then the second fact is that condition, being overweight at all, like moderately overweight, not colossally obese, just overweight is worse for a dog than an entire lifetime of smoking is for a human being. It’ll shorten their lifespan by something like 20% on average. This colossal problem happening to the majority of dogs in the country. 

Daniel Schulof: 

And you would think it would be the easiest thing in the world for dog owners to prevent if you buy the conventional wisdom that calories in and calories out and balancing them is the fundamental way to manage body composition, should be the easiest thing in the world, right? You decide exactly how much food your dog is going to get. Even if you’re not somebody that can exercise your dog at time, you can just scale back the amount of food that you’re feeding each day, it shouldn’t be a problem. And yet all these dogs are. And so that kind of fascinated me. And so I was getting this four hour work week, micro-business dog toy company off the ground and also understanding those issues better. 

Daniel Schulof: 

And basically by the time, so I got the thing off the ground and was able to quit my job as a lawyer and work on that full time is not the right way to say it because it was like a micro-business type thing, but it’s like it ran itself so well that I needed another professional project while this thing was just kind of spitting out passive income and I started working on what would become a serious, big, huge book about the problem of obesity. I just kind of started going down the rabbit hole and literally spent the next four years working on this thing that would ultimately become this huge 400 page book that took me all over the country and exposes what I think is a huge, huge problem in how the veterinary community thinks about the problem of obesity. And by that point I was fully committed to doggy professional work and yeah, other stuff came from that. 

Adam DeGraide: 

What was it for you, Daniel, that gave you… I know it was a lot of a life experience, but what was the intangible that said, “I not only believe this is going to work, I’m going to make it work,” and then step out in that faith and do it? 

Daniel Schulof: 

So the two things this spring to mind are the first was, and I tell this to other folks who are looking to make this kind of leap similarly to what I made from something that’s very consistent and bankable as a job to something that’s riskier, because it starts with zero. I say this a lot because it was a big, meaningful thing for me is getting psychologically authentically comfortable going to zero was a big mental step for me. So being like, “Okay, if this fails, if I set out to do this and it does not work, what is my life really going to look like? Let me really try to imagine that and make sure that I can live with that. If it happens, it’s not the desired outcome, but if it happens, can I deal with what that’s going to look like?” 

Daniel Schulof: 

And in my case, what that would look like is probably taking two years of steps back in my career as an attorney, right? Like anything else, big organization, seniority matters, you move up through the ranks over time. Probably going to spend two years on this project and I’m going to have to reenter the job pool a couple years back. I do have a graduate degree from a leading institution and a good resume so I will be able to get a job as a lawyer. Maybe not at the same ultra high profile international firm as I was at before but probably honestly. It was sort of like that. And I’ll probably have some degree of credit card debt, and I’ll have less savings. It’s like, I’m going to be starting over somewhat financially, but I was in my late twenties and I came out of graduate school, you have to go to law schools, I didn’t start working when I was 18 or something like that. And so it wasn’t a great deal of that. 

Daniel Schulof: 

And so getting comfortable with that, like, okay, what is that going to look like? What is that going to feel like? I was single at that point, I wasn’t married, I didn’t have any kids, didn’t have other people that were relying on me for my income. And so getting there was the mental hurdle that I needed to overcome. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Yeah, yeah, it sounds to me like yours was purely rational, but it was rational to the point though- 

Daniel Schulof: 

I mean sort of. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Where you were able to allow yourself to feel what it would’ve been like had you have been in that area. That’s what I meant by that. It wasn’t purely rational in the sense that you had no heart feelings towards it, you rationally thought through the worst case scenario, put yourself on the couch as if it just happened and let yourself feel it. And you said, “Can I live with it?” And the answer was yes. Now. 

Daniel Schulof: 

Yeah, it’s not that bad. 

Adam DeGraide: 

It’s not that bad. And I tell people if you’re a talented person in general, and if you’re watching and listening to David versus Goliath podcast right now, and you have a desire and you have an idea and you have something that you haven’t done, right? I mean, don’t not move forward with that idea in some way, you’ve got to do it. There is a step of faith there. But to Daniel’s point, when you do it makes a big difference, how you do it makes a big difference and your support network makes a big difference. So in Daniel’s case, he didn’t have a lot of people to worry about because it was himself. And so he had to get to the point where he was on the couch and he was comfortable with the fact that if this thing blows up in my face, I can live with it. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Now you might be married, you might have kids. You might have other people that are counting on you, a sick relative, a sick mother or whatever and that could be holding you back as well, too. In that case, you have to go through a different process mentally, but the same process is absolutely something you should do. I love the fact that Daniel went through the intellectual process of what’s the worst case scenario? And in most cases, when you get there, it’s not unlivable and it’s not undoable. So therefore, what are we waiting for? At some point let’s jump out and let’s do it. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Daniel, thank you so much for being a part of the David versus Goliath family and being on our podcast in our first year, our inaugural year. Well, we’re so excited. I brought on Brandy Whalen on episode 42, she’s the founder of a company called Kitcaster that helps great companies get on great podcasts, which is why I’ve interviewed several of those companies that she’s presented to me, because they were perfect for the show. And I said, “Why not interview the woman who loves podcast, breeds podcasts and helps other businesses get on podcast?” Brandy Whalen, here it is ,enjoy. 

Brandy Whalen: 

I come from the world of public relations. And before that, just various careers that I think when I look at everything that I’ve done in my career journey, it’s kind of all the common thread is storytelling really when you boil it all down. So realizing that podcasting is just such a cool medium. And I was incorporating it into my traditional public relation campaigns and every time that I would have a client go on a podcast, they would just be glowing afterwards. I think that the ability to really dive into their story, their why and connect on a different level that just didn’t feel corporate canned. And they were being interviewed by industry publications or doing an industry focused article. It felt so prepped and canned and podcasts allowed them to kind of let their hair down a bit. 

Brandy Whalen: 

And there’s so many different mediums out there. And some people are stronger writers, some people just have different strengths. Some people are really good at putting together a creative blog post versus a more technical white paper. But those who are good at speaking tend to gravitate towards this medium. I would say it’s very rare that we have to almost talk someone out of going on podcasts most of the time. 

Adam DeGraide: 

I’ve had to do it. I’ve had do it over the years. I used to work with 1800 car dealers and I’d have a car dealer that would say, “I need to be on my own TV and radio commercials.” I’m like, “Dude, if you put yourself on radio-” 

Brandy Whalen: 

No, you don’t. 

Adam DeGraide: 

If you think you’re having a hard time selling cars now, just wait until you do that. So anyway, I digress, go ahead. 

Brandy Whalen: 

Yeah, yeah, I mean, actually we’ve been in business for over three years now. We’ve worked with close to 300 clients and I would say I can count on one hand clients or potential clients that are like, “You know what? This may be not be the best fit for you, for us.” But it’s really cool because when you get somebody talking about what drives them, what makes them put swing both of those legs off their bed in the morning, they can get real fired up. And I truly believe that everyone has a story. I think that some people are natural born storytellers, but I think you can absolutely pull and find a story out of everyone. 

Brandy Whalen: 

And so that’s really what we’re working to do. So if we are working with a client that may not be the most natural storyteller and maybe has a hard time, like, “I don’t know, what is my why?” We work with them to find it. And it takes a bit sometimes. I have found and I don’t know if you’ve found this in podcasting, but sometimes it takes about 20 to 30 minutes to break somebody down. And I don’t mean that in a bad sense, it’s like- 

Adam DeGraide: 

I’ve had people cry on this podcast. That’s going to be my goal today. My goal today is going to be to get you to cry. No, I’m just kidding. 

Brandy Whalen: 

It won’t be hard, I’m pretty easy. I like to, I don’t mind crying. 

Adam DeGraide: 

Let’s show a picture of a puppy dog, there you go. My producer’s actually showing people the picture of the cutest puppy dog. Now, now a picture of the cutest baby. All right, there we go. 

Brandy Whalen: 

Oh yeah, yeah, that would do it for sure. So, yeah, I really do. I mean, I feel very passionately about finding folks’ stories and I think it’s really empowering, especially, if you feel like, we’ve had a lot of clients that are like, “I don’t know, I’m just an average human.” I’m like, “No, you’re not, you’re not an average human. Nobody’s an average human. We all have something. We just have to find it.” 

Adam DeGraide: 

And that’s it. Brandy, thank you so much. And what an amazing recap of quarter two, All Stars 2022 part two right here on the David versus Goliath podcast. I’m your host, Adam DeGraide and remember right here, you get education, inspiration and activation. We’ll see you next week. Have a fantastic day.