Redaction Action! – e62 – Zena Obebe – David Vs Goliath

Adam Degraide:

Coming up today on David Vs Goliath: we’re going to learn all about redaction.

Zena Obebe:

From day one you have to believe in what you’re doing. If you wouldn’t go through that same experience that you’re offering for the client on your end then there’s a problem.

Announcer:

Welcome to today’s episode of David Vs Goliath, a podcast dedicated to helping small businesses leverage technology to not only help them compete against their large competitors but win. Your host is currently the CEO of Anthem business Software, a three-time Inc. 500 recipient and a serial entrepreneur with a passion to help small businesses everywhere find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. Please join me in welcoming your host Adam Degraide.

Adam Degraide:

Hey, everyone, it’s another fantastic episode of the David Vs Goliath Podcast. So glad to have you. Today we have Zena Obebe, that’s right, from HillRedact.com. We’re going to learn all about redaction. I have no idea what it means. I think I do. It’s where they redact documents heavily. Little did I know that you can make an entire business out of this. Fascinating interview. It’s going to be great.

Today’s episode is brought to you by AutomateMySocial.com. If your a small business you can automate 90% to 100% of your social media, set it, and forget it forever. Never have to think about it. It does the job, so you don’t have to. Save thousands and thousands of dollars, take the tour at AutomateMySocial.com. Well let’s get right to it today with Zena. Zena, welcome to the David Vs Goliath Podcast.

Zena Obebe:

Hi, thanks for having me so much.

Adam Degraide:

I am so excited. I met you last week-

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

… at a show that I was doing here in Orlando, Florida and you were a booth right next to our booth, and I love meeting business owners with a passion for their business. And you’re the founder and the CEO of Hill Redaction Services. I still, to this day, have no idea what that means and-

Zena Obebe:

Okay.

Adam Degraide:

… what was really fascinating was people just kept coming up to the booth, and they saw Zena and her … I don’t know if that’s your business partner or an associate, they were working together-

Zena Obebe:

Associate, yeah.

Adam Degraide:

… and, man, they were just killing it and people were really interested in your services, and I thought it was great. I said, “Man, Zena, I’ve got to have you on the David Vs Goliath Podcast to share your story.”

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

So for the watchers and the listeners they’re all over the map as to who listens here. We have a lot of business owners, we have a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs. Tell them about Hill Redaction and exactly what you’ve done, and how you started your business, and who you serve.

Zena Obebe:

Yeah, definitely. Again, thanks for having me. It was lovely meeting you guys there too. Basically with redaction it’s very straightforward, it’s just when you put that black bar over confidential text. It’s used predominately very heavily in a lot of industries but we cater specifically to legal industry. That’s kind of our specialty, but basically started from just working in the industry. I was in finance and legal for over a decade, and within those spaces I dabbled a lot with redaction, more heavily when I worked on the firm side of things. And it was just something that I noticed was just not being done correctly and there were a lot of instances where redactions were missed, and then the impact with that is, of course, when documents or motions are filed with the court with personal information exposed. It really puts clients at risk, people’s real live Social Security numbers and things like that, that you wouldn’t want public.

So it was something I saw that needed … It was a gap that needed to be filled and it just kind of came to me and went with it. I really thought it was something that had to be done and really was needed in the industry, and I’m glad I was right.

Adam Degraide:

It’s fascinating, you hear all these reports all the time about the heavily redacted document. I guess that’s kind of what you’re talking about [inaudible 00:04:11]-

Zena Obebe:

Yeah, especially with Trump and the politics.

Adam Degraide:

When it comes to politics definitely going to be a lot of redaction. Now when you’re working with the attorneys and the firms so do they have a challenge redacting their document? Is that what goes on? Is it very labor intensive and then you take that labor off of them? Have you built software to analyze a document to redact things that should be redacted? I mean, give the watchers and the listeners a little bit about your target audience of who you sell your services to, is lawyers currently, so you’ve solved a problem for them. Is that because it’s a labor-intensive thing, they’d rather not deal with it and they know that you’ll take care of it?

Zena Obebe:

So it’s a combination of things. So it is extremely labor intensive. You literally have to go through and manually redact, which is extremely time consuming, and most often it’s left on the paralegals or the legal assistants. The challenge you have there is these are the team members within the firm that have a lot of workload already, very high volume work in cases, and a lot of rush and urgency, so it’s not necessarily always done properly. So your legal assistants, your paralegals are spread thin with their case load, they go through the file, they get into their last 10, 20 pages and they just scan through, “Okay, good, go,” and that’s where you have those missed redactions happen most frequently.

And then the impact, of course, when those documents get filed with the court not only do you have the impact of exposing the private and sensitive information of someone, but the firms are hit with very hefty fines for missing redactions-

Adam Degraide:

So yeah, so that’s … Yeah-

Zena Obebe:

… and it can lead to having a bit of bad reputation. It’s not a good thing to happen at all.

Adam Degraide:

Man, I got to tell you, you live long enough, a good buddy of mine says, “You see and hear everything.” This is something that I’ve heard of my entire life. I didn’t realize somebody could make an entire business out of redacting documents but it makes sense, especially if you’re solving a huge financial problem, both from a employee time perspective, an accuracy perspective, and then when it comes down to fines. How large are these fines? Can they be?

Zena Obebe:

Oh gosh, they can go thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of dollars even. I mean, it’s not a joke. Not to mention the impact, like I mentioned earlier, of the reputation but also too even if you don’t have an instance where you have missed redactions it’s costly having your legal assistants … When you look at what your paralegals are paid each year, and your legal assistants or attorneys sometimes themselves or having to do the redaction, it’s their time is money and it’s expensive. And their specialty is focused, or should be focused, on drafting motions and handling other parts of business, not the mundane redaction. And we’ve been able to create a model where we’ve been able to take that problem off their hands, give a solution that they didn’t know there was an option for, and do it at a cost-effective rate. So that’s what I love, it’s a win-win all the way around really.

Adam Degraide:

It’s fascinating to me, so do you have more of like a subscription model where you go to a law firm and you say, “For X number of dollars a month we’ll handle all of your redactions”? Do you have offerings like that or is it more of like, “Hey, we’d like to assist you in your redaction process”? I guess the question I’m trying to figure out … Because I love business so much and I’m always trying to understand the metrics, clearly there’s a market for it, clearly you’re solving a financial problem, clearly you’re solving a personnel problem, how do you get … First of all, how do you find a person to work with? And then, second of all, how do you begin the process? What is a day in the life of working … I’m a lawyer, I say, “Okay, let’s do this,” what does that look like?

Zena Obebe:

So the main thing that our goal is, is to make it easy, right? So we’ll do the heavy lifting, so it’s a very streamlined process. So basically we’ll have the initial consultation where we kind of get a feel, okay? Because every industry and each firms, and even within each industry, each firm, kind of may want different things or need, or require, different things to be redacted. So we kind of have that free consultation, have that conversation, get to know their redaction needs, and then we give them access to our secure client portal where they can upload the documents to us for review. Also, they receive their redacted copies in this said portal and we obviously have contracts signed, invoice, and we just get to work working on it. And the good thing about that is we also specialize in really tight deadlines and quick turn times, so it’s great for the industry.

Our billing model’s pretty much not like a subscription but we charge per page, so the beauty in that is it keeps it cost effective because they’re not paying for hours of labor. You’re paying for what you get. So if you give us 10,000 pages you’re going to pay for 10,000 pages being redacted back. And on that note the great thing, when we first started it, my expertise is in legal industry and finance, so that’s kind of who we were catering this to and we found that there’s a really huge area there that also needs redaction, so we assist healthcare, we assist higher education, so many different areas and industries. Finance as well, like I mentioned, and legal.

Adam Degraide:

It’s absolutely amazing. And, watchers and listeners, I don’t know if you’re as fascinated as I am. Every day I do this show, every single week I get here and I interview people, and I’m always amazed at what people make money doing. And it’s just so awesome, awesome to see that. Well I want to talk to you about your team when we get back from a break. We’re going to take our first break from our corporate sponsor Automate My Social. You’re with Adam Degraide and the amazing Zena. We’ll be right back after this message.

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Adam Degraide:

And we’re back with Adam Degraide, your handsome host, and Zena Obebe. I think I’m saying that right? Did I nail it right? [inaudible 00:12:23]-

Zena Obebe:

You are. You’re saying it right, Adam. You’re saying it right.

Adam Degraide:

See, you can teach an old dog new tricks. You can absolutely teach an old dog new tricks. I did want to read something that I thought was interesting, I found it on your website, and I want to see if I can find it again because I was fascinated with what you had to say about it. There’s a quote you have on here. I’m trying to figure out where you put it?

Zena Obebe:

Are you talking about the pandemic?

Adam Degraide:

No, I don’t know if it was about the pandemic. It was … Maybe it’s on the first homepage. There was a quote that you literally said … Maybe it was in contacting us. I’m going to find it here. Stay with me on this journey because I should have marked it and I thought it was really [inaudible 00:13:06]-

Zena Obebe:

Try the About Me page maybe?

Adam Degraide:

Yeah, maybe it’s on the About … Let’s see. There it is. You said, “The best advice I wish we received is lean into the change rather than trying to prevent it,” and I thought that was very profound because all industries go through change, all businesses go through unexpected … Right? The pandemic was a huge unexpected thing for all of us. It was terrible and I still have tons of resentment for people that [inaudible 00:13:37] through that, and I’m still working through that, but I love that advice, “Lean into the change.” One of the things that I always say, Zena, too is that there’s two things I don’t run from, one is problems and the other one is praise. And I think when you’re talking about leaning into change there’s two ways to look at it, right? It could be a problem or an opportunity, and clearly you took that an opportunity.

So you were in the industry, and my watchers and listeners love to hear how people decided to go from working in industry to starting their own thing, and making it successful. How long have you been doing this for and when did that transition come? And walk the watchers and listeners through that process.

Zena Obebe:

Yeah, so I’ve been in the finance and legal industry for over a decade. And it was really, honestly, just an idea that came based on an immediate need that was there. And once I identified, I was able to see that need, then my mind started going and I started thinking, “Okay.” But I think it really goes back to from when I was about six or seven years old I always wanted to do entrepreneurship. It was a dream of mine, from when I was little that’s what I wanted to do. I didn’t know how I was going to get there or what that path would be, obviously, but I knew that that was a dream of mine, that was a passion. Process creation is my strong point and that’s what I wanted to … That’s how I wanted to impact the world and so it was just about finding the right niche that worked for me, that was something I knew about, that I knew back to front, and also something that was able to help people. I wanted it to have meaning.

And so when the whole opportunity came across, in terms of this big major issue at the firm I was working at at the time, it just sent light bulbs off immediately. I still didn’t know how it was going to all play out but sometimes you got to dive in and go for it, so I was fortunate enough to have my husband’s full support with that and I just went for it, and never looked back. A lot of moments when I was like, “What did I do?” But that’s part of the journey and so I’m living it, and loving it, and it’s the best decision I’ve ever made.

Adam Degraide:

I got to tell you, man, I have a lot of admiration for entrepreneurs. I am one myself as well. As you know spending some time with me you can tell-

Zena Obebe:

It’s a tough journey.

Adam Degraide:

You can tell I’m a little crazy, Zena, and I definitely … It’s not for the faint of heart.

Zena Obebe:

No.

Adam Degraide:

It takes a lot of courage, it takes a lot of boldness. So your husband was a big help? How many people currently work-

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

… alongside with you right now, whether they’re contracted or employees?

Zena Obebe:

We’re at about 25 now. Yeah, about all together. Yeah.

Adam Degraide:

Good.

Zena Obebe:

So still growing. So that’s the goal, we always want to grow and expand, but love what we do. Our team makes us and I think … I’ve always been a believer that people are what really make it happen. I know it’s very cliché but you can have the most amazing process, you can have the most amazing ideas, you can have the most amazing business model but if you don’t have the right people in the right place it’s not going to move that needle; and I think that’s another thing we were really fortunate about, is being able to have that right decision-making and having the right people where we need them to really move things how we need to move them, and when we need to move them. And everybody’s very hardworking, focused. We love it. It’s a great, great team and we couldn’t be here without them.

Adam Degraide:

I get so fired up when I hear stories like this. They’re inspirational to me as well too. To realize that you went from this idea that is so simple to now you’ve got 25 people that are … And then dozens of people that are being effected as a result of this business. You mentioned something interesting, it was not an easy decision, there was probably some unease but the very first day that you started-

Zena Obebe:

Yeah.

Adam Degraide:

… and you created your logo, and the very first customer that you got, and you started to serve them, and they were having a great experience, when you went home that night or when you were at home that night and you put your head on the pillow how did you feel?

Zena Obebe:

Well you know, Adam, I think it’s even more impactful because it was kind of completely opposite from what you described, so the very first client we had was a mess. So we kind of had this vision of what we wanted and how we wanted to execute it, and it looks amazing on paper until you’re getting into it sometimes, and that’s when you work out those kinks. So there were things that were [inaudible 00:18:13]-

Adam Degraide:

So you were a nervous wreck?

Zena Obebe:

… and that was-

Adam Degraide:

You were a nervous wreck because-

Zena Obebe:

Nervous wreck, yes.

Adam Degraide:

But you didn’t quit, you didn’t give up, [inaudible 00:18:22]-

Zena Obebe:

No, I didn’t. I couldn’t and it was just … It was one of those situations where everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong but in the end we still provided the service and we provided it with impeccable accuracy, and so that, for me, was the day that I knew, “This is what I’m doing and I’m not … This is what I’m doing. There’s no if, ands, and buts about it because if we can make it through everything going wrong that’s … Can you imagine when we get this thing right?” So that, for me, was just the … It just really fired me up and even though it was stressful, it was crazy, but I just knew then that this is something we can really make happen and help people at the same time. So it was just one of those amazing experiences and, again, really grateful for the growth and the process.

The pandemic also being awful like you mentioned but it was a great opportunity for growth and I think for a lot of people. There were a lot of opportunities that came out of the pandemic and definitely for us as well.

Adam Degraide:

It’s funny when I listen to your story and, watchers and listeners, dial in here for a second, when you think about the fact that her first client was an absolute train wreck and … Right? But this is important, Zena, because people need to hear this. You’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to have challenges in business. You’re going to have challenges in your personal life as well too. You got to push through them because when you push through them to the other side there’s beauty and victory there. But the challenge is a lot of people they get discouraged in those moments. How was it that you were not discouraged? What support network did you have surrounding you and how did you get through that time? What tools did you access personally to get through that difficult initial experience?

Zena Obebe:

Well on the emotional front, like I mentioned, I have my husband. I’m really fortunate to have his support, fully, on it. So any time I’m having a down day or even to this day he’s always like, “Keep going,” always there cheering me on. And then, obviously, I have my parents as well that major, major support. They’ll always be there supporting me, saying, “Okay, keep going. Stick with it. This is your dream,” sort of thing. So it was really great to have those words of wisdom around me, from an emotional standpoint, just to keep your mind in the right place. I found that was the biggest thing for me, it’s really all about your thinking and as long as you keep your thinking in the right place, and in a forward movement, no

matter what happens around you you’re going to keep going forward because things are going to happen and you have to be able to power through it with your brain, and that was impactful.

The other thing I found helpful was I watched a lot of podcasts and listened to a lot of documentaries, read a lot of books, about entrepreneurs that were handling startups, entrepreneurs that had these amazing ideas and built these amazing concepts, and I just watched and learned kind of things. Pulled little nuggets from things that they did and things they worked through, and tried to see how that applied to me and how I could work through that. So it’s a lot of pulling from whatever you have around you and resources that you have to keep you going, and having the right mind frame, but I feel like that’s the most important thing because the right mindset you can work through anything. Honestly, you really can.

Adam Degraide:

There’s no doubt about it. At what point, after the struggles, did you … When you turned the process around to when you did put your head on the pillow that night and said, “I’m so glad I did this,” how long of a timeframe was that? How long … To give someone who’s thinking about their own life and their experience, and maybe to set some realistic expectations, from concept to confidence how … I mean, you always had confidence because you stayed in it but you know what I mean?

Zena Obebe:

Yeah.

Adam Degraide:

You put your head on the pillow and said, “Yeah, I’m on the fish here”?

Zena Obebe:

Yeah. The thing is there’s no exact timeline, it’s a fluid thing that comes and goes, so from day one you have to believe in what you’re doing. If you don’t believe it, if it’s not a service you would use, if you wouldn’t go through that same experience that you’re offering for the client on your end then there’s a problem. So, first of all, you have to have that belief in it and that confidence in it from day one. But the second part is just that you’re going to have those highs and lows, they’re going to come and go. In the very beginning with the situation, everything kind of starting in a rough, gruff situation, at the same time I knew that at the end we were still able to power through and provide this quality service to this client and that’s what made it for me. That was that moment for me that I said, “Okay, you know what? This is something that can really help people really work and this is something we’re going to power through.” And I just made my mind up in that moment that that’s what was going to happen.

Of course, after that you have highs and lows, you have amazing wins, you have the losses. It’s just it’s a very emotional process, as you know, Adam, in entrepreneurship because you constantly get those highs and lows, and you have to be able to have that mindset to battle and strengthen through those down times, and just have that confidence knowing that it’s going to pan out if you stick through [inaudible 00:23:35]-

Adam Degraide:

Absolutely awesome. I love it. I’m inspired myself, so much so that I need to go to another break from another amazing sponsor. This has been so much fun and when we come back I want to talk about your planning a little bit. Did you do any planning or did you just kind of wing it? So think about that during the break. We’ll be right back. Here’s another important message from another great sponsor. We’ll be right back.

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Adam Degraide:

And we’re back with Adam and Zena. It’s amazing. We’re talking about redaction here on the David Vs Goliath Podcast. You learn about stuff, you’re doing a business here, you learn about the redaction business. As a matter of fact I’m having my producer right now put up a little bit of your website on the home. Right now he’s scrolling through it, so the visitors and the watchers can see it and you can even take a look at some of the redacted documents. I mean, some of these things are redacted like to where there’s only a few words on a page. I’m always fascinated about that. And when you started your business and you said, “I’m doing it,” how much planning did you do? Did you sit there with an Excel spreadsheet and model out the five years or did you just go for it?

Zena Obebe:

So a little bit of both. So basically of course there was the financial planning, right? So we wanted to make sure that we had a plan in place to make sure that it made sense, right? So there was that part. And then process creation is my wheelhouse, so we got to work on having a plan for how that process would work, how the roles would be, who would do what. And then it was literally jump in. I literally quit my job and went for it. So a little bit of both. I mean, it’s always good to have a plan, obviously-

Adam Degraide:

[inaudible 00:26:51] … Were you completely wealthy at the time or was it a big risk?

Zena Obebe:

It was a risk but, like I said, I was fortunate to have my husband, so he held it down.

Adam Degraide:

Hey, listen, I always tell people you don’t want to do business alone.

Zena Obebe:

No.

Adam Degraide:

And when you’re taking that leap of faith it’s always good to have someone that believes in you and someone that’s got … Together a plan but at the end of the day you said, “I know this is going to work, I feel like it’s going to work, and I’m so excited about it.” You did mention that there’s other industries besides legal. I noticed on your website that you did talk about healthcare? Is healthcare one of them?

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

And then financial institutions?

Zena Obebe:

Correct. So finance usually a lot of times they’re required for it to meet the GLBA guidelines. They have to keep information redacted and secure while they have it on file, and so that’s where we come in and we’ll redact bunches of files for them, so they can have on hand and those information can stay [inaudible 00:27:56]-

Adam Degraide:

I know it’s very involved in the healthcare space with HIPAA and … Yes.

Zena Obebe:

Yes, yes, with healthcare HIPAA’s a huge one, so a lot of redacting there. It kind of bleeds into insurance as well, in that area. And then obviously legal there’s so many different instances with legal, some more than others that need more assistance. And then, of course, when you have higher education, like universities, they have to follow FERPA, so when they get requests for information that they have to send out information that’s not proprietary needs to be redacted, so that’s where we come in.

Adam Degraide:

Needs to be redacted. The question is you redacted it-

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

You redacted yourself. No, it’s … I probably have so many documents that I need to redact but I really haven’t thought about it. Now one of the things I like to talk about is courage, you know?

Zena Obebe:

Yeah.

Adam Degraide:

So it takes courage to start a business. It really does. And it takes a lot of-

Zena Obebe:

Yeah.

Adam Degraide:

… grit and determination. So for you, you mentioned when you were a young girl you always wanted to be an entrepreneur, was there a mentor in your past, somebody that you really trusted and relied on, that helped guide you and gave you that firm foundation? Is it faith? Is it confidence? What is it in you that gave you the courage?

Zena Obebe:

I always like to say genetics because obviously I had an amazing support group in my mom and my parents but my family is filled with entrepreneurs, so all my uncles and my grandparents, so I had the opportunity of being able to volunteer and go side by side, visit them at their different work places with pretty much all my uncles except one and it gave me the opportunity to see them do what they do, and see how things work. And that was instrumental, I have to say, with me. For me, I should say, because you get to see the backend of things and you get to see it, and I think that visualization makes a big difference. When you actually see entrepreneurship happening, and you see that from people around you and family that’s close to you, and you see what they go through; you see the hours; you see the backend side of it, the good, bad, and the ugly it really is very instrumental in leading you that way or leading you away from it.

In my instance I just gravitated towards it. It was just … It felt within me. I don’t know how else to put that.

Adam Degraide:

Yeah, I love that. Yeah [inaudible 00:30:28]-

Zena Obebe:

So I knew it was going to happen. It was just about what was I going to do or what was the business going to be about, what was the business model going to be? And my entire career, interestingly enough, didn’t seem to lead towards that in any way but through those processes I was collecting the experience I needed to do this, from working in finance to working with firms it all circles in with the experience I need to provide this service, so-

Adam Degraide:

I got to tell you I’m inspired, I’m fired up. When I listen to your story and you realize how full circle the world is, and how so many … I really believe-

Zena Obebe:

Full circle.

Adam Degraide:

… God brings some amazingly talented people around my life and I’m so grateful to meet you, and your associate, and I’m just … I got to tell you I’m so proud of you because at the end of the day, man, it’s not for the faint of heart and you did it. You went out there and did it.

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

And she’s [inaudible 00:31:23] 25 employees, tons of customers, she’s growing her business and that is exciting. Now, Zena, how can people find you?

Zena Obebe:

So a couple quick ways. Obviously our website at www.HillRedact.com, also on Facebook at Hill Redact and LinkedIn, so those are two social media outlets that we have right now but the website’s the easiest. We try to keep some blogs going on there, and just informational tips and tricks, so even if you don’t necessarily want to utilize our service at least there’s some guidance on what to do; what redaction is; how to go about redacting the right way, and that’s what’s important, you got to make sure you’re doing it the right way.

Adam Degraide:

That is awesome. I’ve had so much fun having you on the David Vs Goliath Podcast. Have you had a good time today too?

Zena Obebe:

Amazing time. Thank you for having me, Adam.

Adam Degraide:

It’s always great to hang out with kindred spirits who love what they do, who love their business, who love-

Zena Obebe:

Yes.

Adam Degraide:

… making a difference in the world, who provide a valuable product at a reasonable price and change people’s lives every day. That’s exactly what the David Vs Goliath Podcast is all about. Thank you to the watchers and the listeners. Be sure to link it, tweet it, share it, and stay tuned for next week on the David Vs Goliath Podcast. I’ve got some amazing interviews coming up. Everyone have an awesome day.