Season 1 – Episode 3 – Ryan McEachron

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome to today’s episode of David Versus Goliath, a podcast dedicated to helping small businesses leverage technology to not only help them compete against their large competitors, but win. Your host is currently the CEO of Anthem Business Software, a three time Inc 500 recipient and a serial entrepreneur with a passion to help small businesses everywhere find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. Please join me in welcoming your host, Adam DeGraide.

Adam DeGraide (00:31):

Hey everyone, it’s your host, Adam DeGraide, with David Versus Goliath Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am excited beyond belief for this series, this brand new podcast. We are so pumped up over here. Last week’s episode was fantastic, interview with Kenneth Tyler Anderson of King Sixteen. If you missed it, make sure you check it out. You’re not going to be disappointed. Also, if you want to visit our website, it’s davidversusgoliathpodcast.com. David, V-S, goliathpodcast.com. Check us out. So today I am so excited to have with us Ryan McEachron, who is the CEO of ISU ARMAC Insurance Agency in the high desert in Apple Valley, California. Ryan, give everyone a thumbs up. Great to have you here. And today we’re going to be discussing how a local independent insurance agent can compete with the big captive agents and win.

Adam DeGraide (01:33):

And what’s so cool about Ryan’s situation, which is a lot different than Tyler’s last week, is the fact that Ryan has inherited over the years this agency that has been grown in the desert by his previous… His father, his grandfather, and the lineage is great. And I know at David versus Goliath we have not only aspiring entrepreneurs, but we have other individuals who listened to the show that have inherited businesses as well. And they too are looking for ways to grow and continue to be the leader in this technology-savvy world. Ryan, it’s great to have you. Thanks for joining us.

Ryan McEachron (02:10):

Glad to be with you.

Adam DeGraide (02:11):

It’s so great to have you, man. I met Ryan many years ago when I was involved in the insurance industry myself. I had a company called Astonished Results many years ago, worked with about 850 insurance agencies. And Ryan happened to be a client back then. And what I love about Ryan, as I mentioned early in the introduction, is that he took over the agency from his father, and he works with his family there, and his sisters have worked there. And it’s really a family affair. That represents a lot of unique challenges in and of itself. Wouldn’t you say?

Ryan McEachron (02:45):

Oh yeah, of course. Anytime you’re working with family, you can always have those weird dynamics, but it’s worked for us over the years. Even when my dad was more involved in the business and played a much bigger role to now where we’re at, where it’s just my sister and I pretty much running it. My mom’s still involved paying the bills, doing the accounting and whatnot. But it’s just, we’ve always figured out a way to make it work. And it’s been a good business for our family.

Adam DeGraide (03:16):

Yeah, no doubt about it. And for those listeners who are listening right now, they probably have an insurance agent, but they’ve never really thought about the fact that the independent insurance agent, which is you guys, you’re fighting with the big captive carriers with all that big budget to flow marketing. The farmers (singing). And you get all these things that are like so competitive with such large budgets. Tell the listeners what an independent agency really is and what makes you unique and beneficial to the potential insured.

Ryan McEachron (03:50):

Well, what makes us unique, I think, is our ability being small and agile and being able to move around and do things that the big boys can’t really do. And I think that that’s where we’ve really seen a lot of success. And we do have the ability to do a lot of the things that the bigger brokerage houses do because of our affiliation with ISU, which is an insurance agency network of agents all across the nation. But we put all our premiums together. We have more clout with the insurance companies. We get better contracts with them. We get better relationships with underwriters to get policies written for our clients. So, we have the ability to do the things that the big brokerage markets and big brokers do, but we’re a lot quicker at it, because it’s just a small, independent agency, we have about 20 employees.

Adam DeGraide (04:45):

It’s great.

Ryan McEachron (04:46):

And we’re able to get things done in a much quick and more efficient manner.

Adam DeGraide (04:50):

20 employees. People think, those listening will either think that’s a lot or a little, but either way more than one employee, more than yourself presents challenges. There’s no doubt about it. And as I was sharing with our listeners, there’s five smooth stones that every business has to have operating, which is everything from your plans with goals to the right people, to the right tools, to the process your people use the tools to achieve the goals.

Adam DeGraide (05:16):

And then courage when you think back to the beginning of the agency, the very first day, that I think it was your grandfather, right? That he started the agency?

Ryan McEachron (05:25):

Right.

Adam DeGraide (05:26):

What do you think was going through his mind when he said, “You know what, I’m going to start this thing. I’m going to rely and build something that can be passed on.” Think about how proud he would be right now, knowing that you and I are being interviewed right now. You still have 26 employees, millions of dollars of premium. You serve tens of thousands of insured clients, both commercial and personal. What was it like for him, do you think? Did he ever share that story with you? Or maybe you could just even to help us imagine what it would be like. I can’t imagine.

Ryan McEachron (05:54):

Well, it was back in 1962 right here in Apple Valley, in the high desert of California, that he did start it. And I think what he did was, he had been working for another insurance agent for a short period of time. And it just really wasn’t working out. Their personalities kind of clashed, all that type of stuff. And one of his friends said, “Gordy, I’m going to get you started on your own business and help you get away and out of that situation.” And I think it was just more or less him wanting to prove that he could do it without being tied to this other person that he’d been partnering with. And so he [crosstalk 00:06:30] took it on, I mean he just jumped right into it, and it just got rolling and he was able to write a lot of business.

Adam DeGraide (06:37):

In some cases, man, isn’t that it’s called ‘defective capitalism’. You’re at a place where you realize there’s so much more that you could give and someone’s holding you back. You’re like, “Dang it. I’m just going to do it myself.” And I love that spirit. I wish I had a chance to meet him. I have met your dad. Your dad’s awesome, Ross McEachron. When did he take over from his father?

Ryan McEachron (07:01):

Oh gosh, this was probably going back to the late seventies, early eighties when he took it over. He had started in it, and then we had moved up to Northern California, lived up there for three years. He did everything from farming to working in a hardware store. And then, I think it just got to a point where his dad said, “Look, Ross, I need you back in the business.” So we moved back down here to Apple Valley. And my dad went back into the business full bore. He was selling life insurance at night, doing what he needed to do during the day, and just took the business to a whole another level at that point. And eventually took it over from his dad. So it was one of those things that over time, as he worked in the business, he just ultimately took it over, much kind of like how Tammy and I have been taking it over, over the last decade.

Adam DeGraide (08:00):

[crosstalk 00:08:00] Big shoes to fill.

Ryan McEachron (08:01):

Yes I do.

Adam DeGraide (08:04):

I can’t even imagine. If you think about how different the world is in general since 1962. I mean, we tweet now, people tiktok videos, people watch a goofy dude like me with a headset on in his studio interview people. I mean, it’s a whole different world. And yet insurance, the principle of it pretty much has stayed the same over the years, which is, you don’t want to lose the things you have that are valuable, so therefore you need to protect them, hence you need insurance. So let’s transition. At the agency right now it’s yours and Tammy’s goal primarily to grow it. Do you guys have meetings where you talk about at the beginning of the year, “Here’s where we currently are with a number of insureds in our premium. Here’s where we’d like to be.” Do you guys have those discussions or is that something you’re trying to get better at?

Ryan McEachron (08:53):

Well, I think we’re always trying to get better at it. And those discussions do happen on more of a regular basis than just once a year. I think we’re constantly talking about that. As corporate officers, we meet quarterly, we look at the numbers, we’re constantly looking at what are the different ways that we can grow. One of the newer things that I’ve been doing, and the agency’s been doing, is 401ks. It wasn’t something we really got involved in in the past. But we have the ability with one of our insurance companies called Principal to be able to sell those to our clients. And that’s really worked out great. But we’re always constantly looking for ways to grow. In the insurance industry, there’s a lot of attrition that goes on. And so people are always constantly shopping their rates and doing that type of stuff. So you’re going to have that, no matter what you do. I’m in this business, but trying to increase those numbers year over year is definitely always the goal for this family.

Adam DeGraide (09:53):

I try to encourage small businesses all the time. If you don’t know where you are and know where you want to get to, you’re in no danger of ever getting there. It’s like, you have to have these conversations where it’s whether it’s a unit goal, the premium goal. Or if you have a small business and you’re listening and watching right now, do you need more sales? Do you need better people? Do you need better technology? All these things are really in part of growing a business and staying relevant in the year 2021, which is where we are right now. One of the things I want to do too, Ryan, is, you have 20 employees. I think you and I were talking a couple of weeks ago where you woke up one morning, one of your employees said, “I’m never coming back.”

Adam DeGraide (10:40):

I mean, anybody who’s ever run a business has dealt with this problem before. How would you help people that are either starting a business or they have a handful of employees and something like that happens to them? Especially if you’re early on in your business, the tendency would be to panic, right? Like, “Oh my gosh, we’re going to die.” But at the end of the day, somehow, we always seem to make it through these things. At ISU ARMAC, do you have a culture of finding good people, trying to recruit them, and train them, and develop them, and mentor them? So when those situations happen, somebody else can fill in or… I mean, it’s always a work in progress, right? But when it comes to your people and that specific example, what did you do?

Ryan McEachron (11:21):

So this was our receptionist and she had been working out tremendously for us. And we really enjoyed having her work for us, but there was something going on in her life personally that it wasn’t working for her to stay. And so, those things happen. There’s nothing you can do about them, no matter what plans or contingencies you put into place. But luckily we have cross-trained a lot of our staff to be able to fill that role should something happen. So we were able to manage and get through process. And since then, we have already interviewed quite a few people. Believe it or not, people are starting to want to go back to work now.

Adam DeGraide (12:03):

It’s about time.

Ryan McEachron (12:04):

[crosstalk 00:12:04] The day they had something. [crosstalk 00:12:05] But so, we interviewed several people and we’re hiring two new members of our staff that will be starting in the next couple of weeks.

Ryan McEachron (12:15):

And again, for us, it’s always nice to have someone that has an insurance license, right? Because that’s the business we’re in. But we have found that a lot of times we can hire people that don’t have the experience, don’t have the insurance license, train them from the ground up. And sometimes we get a better employee, a better member of our organization than you would if you hired someone off the street that had the insurance license. So if people that are in the business or in the industry right now, they may have preconceived ideas of how an insurance agency should run. So when they come in here, they want to try to tell us how to do things or, or whatnot. And so it’s always easier to have someone that you can mold, that you can train, and learn from the ground up.

Adam DeGraide (13:00):

It’s funny that you say that because when I was in the insurance space, I would always tell insurance agencies, “It’s amazing to me how you guys keep hiring people from other agencies that you don’t think are that good of agencies bring them into your agency, don’t train them, sit them down and say, ‘Do your job'” and expect it to do the job that they were doing over there, which was terrible. And then come over here and do it again.

Adam DeGraide (13:24):

And I’ve always used to say, “One of the best things you could do is when you run into somebody at a best buy or a restaurant, it gives you great service.” You’re talking to someone on the phone. Those are sometimes the best recruiting opportunities for many small businesses, because we want people that love our clients, right? At Anthem Software, which is our corporate sponsor, we want people that love our clients. At ISU ARMAC, we’ve talked about this. You want employees that love and care about your insured, so they get the service they need when the time comes, because, inevitably, there will be claims, there will be challenges, and people are essential. So, Ryan, hang out with me for a second. Speaking of our corporate sponsor, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back.

Speaker 1 (14:08):

Anthem Business Software System is designed to specifically help small businesses just like yours find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. We do this by providing you with the most powerful software, automations and marketing services to help your business compete and win in this ever-changing digital world. Take a short video tour at anthemsoftware.com.

Adam DeGraide (14:52):

Welcome back to David Versus Goliath. I’m your host, Adam DeGraide, with the CEO of ISU ARMAC. Ryan is still with us. Ryan. You’re doing great, buddy. Let’s keep it going. Transitioning to tools. Insurance agencies have a ton of tools that they have to use, from managing their book of business, quoting the book of business, and making sure they’re educating their people that are actually on their book of business. Tell us a little bit about the tools that ISU ARMAC uses. You can name the companies if you want to, you don’t have to, you can talk about the features and functionality of what you do, but I think a lot of people be interested. What does it take to educate, quote and stay in front of the people that you currently have in your book of business?

Ryan McEachron (15:35):

And I’m sure every business has to have this type of stuff in place. It’s just always different for each different type of industry. But now we have an agency management system and that is where all of our customer data is kept. Their policies are in there. If any claims come about, that’s in there. Any correspondence that we have with them, whether it’s a phone call, email, or snail mail going out to them, all of that’s in on their accounts so that we have a record of what’s going on. We have a record of any changes that they’ve wanted to make, and keeping all that information in that agency database and management system is key to having a successful business. One. And then, two, we’re in the business of writing business, writing new business, people that are looking to get auto insurance, or homeowners insured, their business insured and whatnot.

Ryan McEachron (16:28):

So we have a myriad of other tools. We have a personal lines rating system, which basically you put in their information, their vehicles, their driving record and all that type of stuff. And it’ll spit out quotes from the various different companies that we represent, which is a huge tool we use on a daily basis in our personalized department. Commercial lines is a little bit different. We usually have to go to the insurance company to get those quotes, but again, another tool that we use, and I’m not as efficient as the personal lines, because it’s not all within one type of system. But it’s definitely something we use on a daily basis. And there’s just all kinds of different tools that we’re constantly adding. We’re looking at doing some CRM and communicating with our existing clients that cross-sell them on products that they don’t currently have.

Ryan McEachron (17:21):

So if we have a homeowner’s insurance policy for an individual, but we don’t have their autos insured, we’re constantly looking to round out that account to try to bring that in and hopefully write an umbrella over that for them. So, that’s key to our business. We’re constantly doing that. We’re constantly pounding that into the heads of our staff, because that’s what we want them to do. Because we found in the insurance industry, that if you have two to three policies for a client, the likelihood them leaving you is very small. So [crosstalk 00:17:52]

Adam DeGraide (17:53):

It’s funny, Ryan. The people listening to this that are the insured, because, actually, you are my agent. You guys over at ISU ARMAC my agent. Did you know, folks, that they refer to us as being ’rounded out’? Probably not, but it’s actually a term that’s in the industry. And all it basically means is that they want to make sure you’re covered, right? And so if you have only one thing here and over there, everything’s fragmented. They want to put it all together to help round you out for your benefit and for their benefit. So, whenever you hear an agent say they want a bundle behind closed doors, they’re actually saying “Let’s round these people out.” And it’s not a negative thing. It’s actually a positive thing. But when you hear about it reminds me of working with the car dealers.

Adam DeGraide (18:38):

Sometimes you run into a car dealer and they’d have an awesome attitude towards their customers. And then other times I’d run into a car dealer and they’d be like, “Yeah, look at that tire kicker out there, that person ain’t going to buy anything.” You just never know, as a customer, what people think of you and what they’re actually at. So there’s a little insight, little window, folks, as to what your insurance agent actually thinks of you. And they love you. They want to round you out for your benefit and for their benefit. And I know you’re working on improving on the website. Content on the website is critical. I know you’re trying to write making sure that all of your lines of insurance have content on your website, because that is not the case right now. And I know that that’s been a challenge, right?

Adam DeGraide (19:18):

As an insurance agent, those that are listening or have service businesses like yourself. I was talking to Kenneth last week and he said the biggest problem that he’s had, Ryan, is that they were so focused on loving and serving their clients, that they were neglecting some of the things that they had to do for themselves. Talk a little bit about that as a business owner. And it goes like this, right? You kind of like, you start to focus on it, and then you get busy, and then you focus on it. Is that something you deal with?

Ryan McEachron (19:48):

Oh, all the time. I mean, you have your priorities, you get focused on, you work it on, and in attempting to make sure that you get that thing done. But there’s always something else that’s pulling you away from that. So, just making sure you keep that focus and that you have the right people you’re working with, whether that’s internal staff or with companies outside of your own organization that you hire to do certain things for you. I think that that’s key, and making sure you have the right partners to help you get the job done. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s getting the job done. And so-

Adam DeGraide (20:21):

It takes a village, Ryan.

Ryan McEachron (20:24):

It does take a village.

Adam DeGraide (20:25):

As our former first lady used to say, it takes a village.

Ryan McEachron (20:29):

We’re going through it right now. We’re going through the revamp of the website. It hasn’t been done in a long time. We know we can get more business driven through that process and we just need to… That’s the reason we’re working on it right now to greatly improve that.

Adam DeGraide (20:44):

And it’s so funny because I talk about this like ad nauseam, about how everything is connected, right? So your website has to be connected to the social, to your email, to your database. The whole thing has to be connected. It’s almost like most small businesses. It’s like a bad band. You go to see a band live, right? The drum is going (singing), and you’re like, “Oh, this is good.” Bass player comes out, he’s ripping on the bass, he’s having a good line. Guitar player, keyboarders, everyone sounds great. The singer grabs him and he goes (singing).

Adam DeGraide (21:15):

And the whole thing comes crashing down because one instrument, one instrument out of tune in the whole band can ruin the sound that your business is singing externally. So I’m really glad to hear that you’re working on getting that song in your business to be sung better and effectively throughout different channels. Now, transitioning to process. This is the process that our people use the tools to help us hit our plans and goals. This is a challenge for every business. Do you guys spend time, be honest, as much time as you need to in training your people on A. What tools are available to them in the agency? B. What is the purpose of those tools? And C. What is the benefit in them using it?

Ryan McEachron (22:09):

Yeah. Well, I mean. [crosstalk 00:22:13] In a perfect world, yes, we do. But we all know that sometimes that ball can get dropped. And so, we have policies and procedures that we put into place here that anytime a new hire comes on, that they’re trained in that way. But we also know over time that people do things differently. They look for the path of least resistance to get a job.

Adam DeGraide (22:37):

Really? I had no idea.

Ryan McEachron (22:38):

Yeah. And so we are constantly having to remind them, “Hey, you need to do this. You need to do that.” It can get frustrating at times, but when the insured calls in and needs to make a change, it’s simple enough to make sure that you document that in their client activity. But a lot of times that doesn’t happen.

Ryan McEachron (22:59):

And so we have to go back and say, look, “This is not optional. You have to do it. [crosstalk 00:23:07] It’s a part of your job working here.” And so, that’s just one example, but there’s numerous examples of things that happen in the process of writing an insurance policy, crossing your T’s, dotting your I’s, because if you don’t, the underwriters will come back and say, “Hey, this doesn’t work” or “This doesn’t make sense.” Or an odometer reading, having exactly 16,000 miles on it when we’re writing the policy, that doesn’t ever happen, okay? But a lot of times [crosstalk 00:23:35]

Adam DeGraide (23:35):

Maybe one out of every 10,000 times, right?

Ryan McEachron (23:37):

So, those are just some examples. But, yeah, we’re constantly going through training. I think that’s good because otherwise you don’t learn, you don’t get better if you’re not constantly doing that. And so we all need to do it, even as the CEO, I’m not perfect. I don’t always do things the right way.

Adam DeGraide (23:58):

You’re not perfect? [inaudible 00:24:00] fellow CEOs aren’t perfect? No, kidding. It’s funny you say that because I need to train myself even better, right? To discipline myself on how to be more organized, even for my own business. Am I really doing a good job instilling that culture and passion into the people that work alongside of me, right? And that really is the struggle of a leader, is how do we make sure that not only A. Does the community know what we are? But the people that work inside of our business know who we are, and they can translate that in a very powerful way to our potential insureds in your case, and also existing insureds right? So it’s definitely a challenge. This has been a fantastic conversation. I’m going to talk to you about the final fifth smooth stone here in a second, but we’re going to go to another break. Stay tuned here on David Versus Goliath Podcast. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 5 (24:59):

At King Sixteen, our agency has done some exciting things over the years. We’ve designed and built amazing experiences for customers and launched several vehicles for Audi and Porsche. We’ve thrown extravagant parties inside whiskey distilleries, and featured amazing products for brands like Ray-Ban and Fossil. We booked some incredible talent and design cutting-edge stages for those performances. We even threw a red carpet gala in the middle of nowhere on a horse farm with hundreds of celebrities, which was difficult. I guess you could say we’ve done some amazing things for our brands and partners. Now, the only question is what will King Sixteen do for you? Find out at kingsixteen.com. That’s king S-I-X-T-E-E-N.com.

Adam DeGraide (25:52):

And we’re back here on David Versus Goliath. I’m your host, Adam Degraide, we’re with Ryan McEachron, from ISU ARMAC, who is doing a fantastic job. And we’re learning so much about what insurance agencies think of us, the customer. It’s been a lot of fun. So, Ryan, one of the things I talk about all the time is when David, the shepherd boy, went out to slay Goliath, and Saul offered him his sword, his body shield. And David’s like, “I don’t need that.” I got five smooth stones, the fifth smooth stone I talk about all the time is courage. It takes a lot of courage to run your own business or to start your own business, or in your case, take over an existing successful business and try to keep it successful. When you think of courage, how do you define it for yourself, and how do you portray it to the people in your business, and what do you hope that they portray in return?

Ryan McEachron (27:06):

Well, I think defining courage is getting up every day, and getting the job done, and going to work, and making sure you’re doing whatever you can to improve your spot in life. And so that’s courage has just built upon that. And you hope to emulate that for your staff and for the people around you. And that they’ll do the same thing because the better they get, the better the business gets. And we all benefit from that. So just being able to get up and be there sometimes.

Adam DeGraide (27:39):

By the way, you said “get up”. It’s so funny. Because I was talking with Tyler last week and he was talking about Jordan Peterson’s book, Another 12 Rules for Living, or something like that. That chapter one is, get up, make your bed. I mean, that’s step one is just getting up. And, see, people don’t really appreciate this, Ryan. Even though you have an existing business that’s been successful over the years, those that are listening right now and watching this podcast, they maybe have never made a payroll before. That’s a scary thing for anybody in existing business or somebody who just wants to start out. That’s a heavy responsibility, man. When you wake up and you put on your shirt in the morning, the CEO of ISU ARMAC, there’s 20 plus people that are relying on you, and your sister, and your mom, and a whole family business, right?

Adam DeGraide (28:30):

And so it’s bigger than just your family. You think about all the people that have been blessed over the years because of ISU ARMAC, all the employees that you’ve worked with and their extended families. These are things that people don’t think about or don’t really appreciate about small business. But what fires me up about small business is because we are the backbone of this country and we are the backbone of this economy. And if we don’t have courage to get up and slay that dry in of ourselves, who else is going to do it, right?

Ryan McEachron (29:05):

Yeah. Now we got to, and I think that that’s just the key, is just getting up. I like the analogy of making your bed because when I was in high school, that was the one thing my psychology teacher taught us is how to prepare your brain for the day. It’s as simple as making your bed. And it’s worked my entire life. That really [crosstalk 00:29:27].

Adam DeGraide (29:27):

Do you do that? Do you get up every day and make your bed right away?

Ryan McEachron (29:29):

Yeah. You got to make your bed.

Adam DeGraide (29:31):

I’m going to have to check with your wife on this and see if this actually.

Ryan McEachron (29:32):

No, but I mean, it’s important.

Adam DeGraide (29:37):

You don’t have a big staff of just people that come in and clean your house every day?

Ryan McEachron (29:41):

No, I wish. No. We do it ourselves, but it’s just something that triggers in your brain, psychologically, that making your bed, it just prepares you for your day. And I think that that’s always been key. And just getting up and doing it and being there. A lot of times, the reason that we have met with success and acquired some of the accounts that we have is because we were there. And if you’re not there, you can’t get it. You can’t get that big account.

Adam DeGraide (30:13):

Hold on, say that again. The reason why he got the accounts was because they were there. And you can’t win if you’re not there. And you can’t be there without the courage to get up and be there. I love that. That is fantastic. Final piece of advice for listeners. As you know, this show has got entrepreneurs, aspiring entrepreneurs, founders listening to it, people like yourself, that have taken over existing businesses. What advice would you give to the person who has recently taken over a successful small business and now the responsibility is on their shoulders? Any advice for them?

Ryan McEachron (30:51):

Well, I think you just have to really dig in and look at the numbers, understand what kind of mix of business you have. I mean, that’s a very important part of our business. And we’ve got a lot of different insurance lines that we’re writing and so we’re evenly balanced over. So if something goes bad in one part of the insurance industry, it doesn’t affect the other parts. So I think it’s key just knowing, making sure you know the business inside and out, looking at those numbers. If you’re in charge, you’ve got to be constantly looking at numbers, figuring out ways of reducing expenses, increasing revenue, and doing what you can to help grow the business. Bring on more people to make you more successful. So it’s just making sure that you’re in there and doing the job that is necessary to make it successful and grow even more.

Adam DeGraide (31:41):

It’s great advice. Everyone listening, I hope you’ve enjoyed this show as much as I have enjoyed learning about the insurance space and learning about how Ryan has it been able to take over a very successful business, passed down through generation to generation, keep it current, keep it relevant, keep it on the front lines to slay that giant and win more business. Everyone, thank you so much for tuning into David Versus Goliath Podcast. Be sure to check us out online. Be sure to subscribe, like, share. Do whatever you can get the word out there. This is the place to be if you want to learn how to run a small business effectively. I’m your host, Adam DeGraide. I’ll see you next week. And thanks for watching. Have a great day.