Adam DeGraide:

Coming up today on David Vs Goliath. Look at that, a coffee shop idea that turned an idea of a dating app into matching yourself to a therapist. You’re going to jump in head first. You can do it.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to today’s episode of David Vs Goliath, a podcast dedicated to helping small businesses leverage technology to not only help them compete against their large competitors, but win. Your host is currently the CEO of Anthem Business Software, a 3 time Inc. 500 recipient and a serial entrepreneur with a passion to help small businesses everywhere find, serve, and keep more customers profitably. Please join me in welcoming your host, Adam DeGraide.

Adam DeGraide:

Hey everyone, it’s Adam DeGraide with a David versus Goliath Podcast. Welcome. Hope today is amazing. It’s definitely going amazing here at the DVG podcast. You can see, one nation under par, one of my favorite t-shirts I got over the Christmas vacation, which was amazing. And today we’re going to be interviewing Ryan Schwartz from the Mental Health Match. Should be an interesting and exciting episode and I hope you’re ready to enjoy it. Today’s episode is brought to us by automatemysocial.com, where you can automate up to 100% of your business’ social media, set it, forget it, never have to think about it again. Save thousands of dollars, save time, have more fun, get a better result at automatemysocial.com. Visit us online at davidvsgoliathpodcast.com. There you can subscribe to receive our newsletter and also apply to be on the podcast. Well, let’s get right to it. Ryan, welcome to the David Vs Goliath Podcast.

Ryan Schwartz:

Well, thanks so much Adam. It’s so good to be here to talk about mental health and all things taking on kind of the big establishment folks in the industry.

Adam DeGraide:

There’s nothing quite like it. And there’s nothing that’ll give you a mental health headache more than taking on a giant. There’s no doubt about that. And one of the things we love to do here as Ryan, first of all, are you subscribed to the show?

Ryan Schwartz:

I am.

Adam DeGraide:

All right, absolutely. You’d be amazed, Ryan, how many people I actually go to interview and we start off the interview and I’m like, I bet you they’ve never even seen an episode. And so that’s good to know. And if you have a podcast, make sure you send it to me, I’ll make sure I subscribe for you to help you out as well too. And the watchers and listeners love stories because they themselves, many of them are entrepreneurs that watch this, they’re aspiring or they’re existing entrepreneurs and they’re trying to really make a difference in the world. I think your story’s unique and what you’re doing with the mentalhealthmatch.com, I went there and you’re trying to match people to the right fit for them for their mental health. Why don’t you tell the folks and listeners just a little bit about that and how you got into it and what it exactly is.

Ryan Schwartz:

Yeah, absolutely. So mentalhealthmatch.com is a free website to use and we ask folks a little bit about what’s going on with them and we match them to therapists who best meet their needs. It’s all designed to take the guesswork out of finding a therapist to make it easy and less overwhelming. And it started from my own personal story, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs kind of relate to, is having a personal experience that drives them in a certain direction. And so for me, a number of years ago I said suddenly lost my mom. And it was kind of a sad moment in my life and I was struggling with grief and I had kind of uprooted my life to help take care of my dad, I’m an only child, and to help him through the transition. And a good friend of mine said, “This is the time to go see a therapist.” And we’d been talking about therapy off and on and I never really quite got therapy or thought it was from me. I was raised in Texas and it’s not a whole feelings forward culture.

And so at the time I said, okay, if there’s any time to do it, this would be it. And so I went to go find a therapist and was completely overwhelmed by the process. How do you go out and do that, especially when you are already feeling overwhelmed by life and life’s challenges? And I would sit down with different therapists and it just didn’t feel like a fit. I would feel like kind of a pity party, which was not what I was looking for. And so I started talking to folks and I would ask my friends and family and say, “I know you looked for a therapist once or you went to therapy, how’d you go about doing it?” And everybody just talked about how hard it was. And I talked to a number of people who said, “I wanted to go to therapy, but the search was so hard and was just so overwhelming that I just gave up and I never did it.” And I thought something has got to change here.

And I was sitting across my friend in a coffee shop, I was looking for a therapist and she was setting up an online dating profile, we were helping each other. And I was just comparing the process and it made me realize we have all of these matching algorithms and technology that help people find a date or the next possible love of their life. Why can’t we apply that to the search for a therapist and make that process really easy? And so that’s how Mental Health Match began in 2018. We started locally here in Houston, Texas just to see how it would go and it kind of took off from there. And now we are nationwide. We help over, it’s about 10 to 12,000 people every week find a therapist and there’s thousands of therapists in our network.

And so you go to mentalhealthmatch.com, you don’t have to sign up or anything like that. It’s completely anonymous. And we ask you some questions, what’s your budget? Do you need to use insurance? What’s going on with you in your life? We help people think about do you want a therapist of a certain race or gender or sexual orientation? And there’s over a hundred and something different types of therapy, different approaches. You could have art therapy or music therapy. And so we help people figure out what type of therapy is best for them and then we show them all of the matches of available therapists who best meet their needs and make it really easy to contact and take that next step of your journey.

Adam DeGraide:

Look at that, a coffee shop idea that turned an idea of a dating app into matching yourself to a therapist. Now doing this, by the way, there has to be a component of revenue, I would imagine, or is this purely a passion project for you?

Ryan Schwartz:

It is a business. And so therapists pay a subscription, either a monthly or annual subscription to be part of our site and to get clients through us. So kind of like an advertising model.

Adam DeGraide:

Is it a per lead or is it a per deal situation? So in other words, there’s a lot of aggregators that are out there that they’ll gather leads, gather information, send it to two or three different businesses, and then whoever gets to that person and wins that business, wins it. But each of those businesses are paying a fee to the lead aggregator or is this one where a match is made, it actually does happen? Is that when you make a component or a piece of the money?

Ryan Schwartz:

Yeah, so it’s a subscription. So unlimited amount of leads for the therapist, they just pay to be listed in the database. And there’s a couple of reasons for that. One is therapists are very, very ethical. And so there’s a lot of ethical guidelines that say you can’t pay per specific referral. And so rather than having to pay for a specific referral, you’re just paying the subscription. But also we believe that the match is really important and that’s what underlies a lot of what we do. And so we want to show you the best match and allow you to find a therapist who is your best match, and not kind of hold back or subject that to who’s paying and who’s not. Everyone’s kind of on a fair playing field so that when you see your best match, nobody paid extra to be shown that. It really is the person who really best meets your needs.

Adam DeGraide:

That’s amazing. What an amazing story so far today on the David Vs Goliath Podcast. Ryan, we got to take a break from our first sponsor, Automate My Social. Stay tuned, we’ll be right back.

Speaker 4:

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Adam DeGraide:

And we’re back with Ryan and Adam DeGraide, your handsome host here on the David Vs Goliath Podcast, learning how you can get mental help with mentalhealthmatch.com. And I think it’s an awesome story. So in 2018 you started it, you started it locally in Texas, you’re now nationwide, you shared with us your subscription model. How many people currently are in the organization helping you grow it, Ryan?

Ryan Schwartz:

Well, this is a great story. I mean, so we have a number of folks on our team. I’m the only full-time employee at this moment. So I’d say a couple of years ago, about a year and a half ago, we had to downsize. And this was I think something similar in a lot of people’s stories. We almost closed down. COVID was really an interesting time for us. Mental health demand grew rapidly and a lot of people started thinking about therapy for the first time, which is great. We were helping a lot of people find therapists, but because our business model relies on therapists paying for advertising, it didn’t work well because therapists were all full. They didn’t need to advertise anymore, they didn’t need to find clients, the demand was so overwhelming the supply. And so it didn’t work so well for us. So we had to lay off everybody, including myself and strip it back down to the bare bones to see if we could survive. And we’ve grown a lot since then. We’ve kind of come out of it much stronger.

But we have a team of different contractors and marketers and folks and then myself and developers and all of those things. So I have to wear a lot of hats, juggling a lot of different projects. But that kind of model has allowed us to be a phoenix and rise back up from the ashes. And I think in the next few months we’ll be able to start hiring full-time again and really get the wheels turning. But I think that that’s something that a lot of people experience in their journey. How many companies we know that are very successful today where the founder says, “We almost stopped, we almost closed down. Something happened.” And so I think part of it is being passionate about what you do and having that determination to keep going. You should know when it’s time to call it quits. I think that that’s a hard thing for a lot of entrepreneurs and founders to realize. But I knew in my heart it wasn’t time to call quits, it was just a moment in time and we managed to get through that.

Adam DeGraide:

That’s an important part of this conversation is that you start something, it’s going well. Something that is out of your control comes in, flanks you on the right or left side. You have to say, “Everyone out of the pool, time out, we’ve got to reevaluate these things.” Where did you learn that skillset, Ryan? There’s a lot of people that would panic and run into a wall and in your case, you got out of the pool, you dried off, you looked around and said, “I believe I’m in the right place. I know this is the right thing.” Where did you learn that skillset from?

Ryan Schwartz:

Therapy. So part of my journey is that …

Adam DeGraide:

Perfect answer.

Ryan Schwartz:

Yeah, absolutely. Part of my journey is I started going to therapy after my mom passed and kind of learned how to handle grief, but this was an introduction to therapy for me and I realized what a powerful tool it is. And since then I’ve been going to therapy weekly, which has allowed me to really understand myself on a deeper level, be able to understand my emotions and take that apart, look at my decisions as a business owner, where are they coming from? Are they coming from a place of fear or panic? Are they coming from a place of strategy and insight? And really help me tease those things apart on a weekly basis so that I’m knowing, am I making decisions based off of fear or my ego? Am I making decisions based off of how I think I’m going to be perceived? Or am I making decisions about what I think is going to be right for the business and our customers?

And so therapy has helped me do that. And so when the time came to have to strip back mental health match to the bones and layoff folks, it was really hard and really difficult. But I felt more prepared to make a difficult decision faster because I knew it was the right thing to do and I could easily see that I had relationships with my coworkers and I was sad about that. I didn’t want to let them down, but I could see and kind of expose those emotions and understand them so that it wasn’t holding me back from making the right decision.

Adam DeGraide:

I love that. Now you mentioned early on, and we’re going to have to hit a break here again in a second, but really quickly, trying to match people based on things that they want. So for example, if they want to do therapy with a guy or they want to do therapy with a lady or a therapy, as you mentioned, sexual orientation. Is there a religious element to it though too? People that want to have more of a faith-based therapist? Is that something that’s available in your platform?

Ryan Schwartz:

Absolutely.

Adam DeGraide:

How well-rounded, I guess, is the platform?

Ryan Schwartz:

Pretty well-rounded. We did a lot of research about what people could be looking for and did a lot of studying about it. So yep, absolutely. Looking for a therapist who has a religious or spiritual part of their practice, that is definitely part of the platform as well.

Adam DeGraide:

That’s awesome, man. Look at this. Think about how smart this idea is folks. There’s so many of these ideas, just thinking out there. A buddy of mine started a company called Get Mulch and his whole concept was, I want to help people get mulch. And so nobody knows where to go to get mulch. You kind of call a landscape company, you go to … Nobody knew. So he did the same type of thing. He got the idea from a dating app. We all need mental health, we all need mental help, we all need each other. And creating that platform at mentalhealthmatch.com is pretty amazing. So we’re going to take another break from another amazing sponsor and we’ll be right back.

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Adam DeGraide:

And we’re back for the final segment with Ryan and Adam DeGraide, your crazy host here who could use a little mental health and a little mental help. And so who knows? Therapists in my life has made a big difference over the years. I had a wonderful woman named Donna Benedict who helped me through some very difficult times in my life and I don’t think I would be here without her as far as stable as I am, although that’s questionable if you know me. But we’ve all gone through tragedies and in David Vs Goliath, we talk about that.

There’s an intangible entrepreneur who sees an idea and doesn’t hesitate, runs into it. What was it for you, Ryan, that I know you mentioned it was a tragedy with your mom, you were looking for yourself, but to turn that horrible situation into something positive, there’s something in us that’s intangible that says, “I’m going to go for it and I’m not going to wait.” So many people have ideas, I guess is what I’m trying to say, and they do nothing about them. And the difference between somebody who is sitting where you are right now, the owner of mentalhealthmatch.com, and somebody who’s had an idea and doesn’t do it, there’s only one difference. You did it. So what was it in you that gave you that courage to do that?

Ryan Schwartz:

Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, I think everybody can be a founder. I think it feels daunting and people sell themselves short and they don’t know what to do. So I think it’s kind of two things that allow me to do it. One is I’ve always been kind of a rebel and independent person. So even before Mental Health Match, I had my own business running a consultancy for a communications and messaging type of consultancy. So I’ve done this before. I joke that I am highly unemployable, I have to run my own show. I like my freedom and flexibility. I’ve always been that way. So there’s part of me that does that.

But even for folks who might be new to this, you can do it. I think it’s like people need somebody to tell them and they need to hear stories from folks like this show where you can do it. It feels daunting, but there’s resources to help you, there’s guidance to help you and you just have to follow your ideas in your heart and to get out there and start talking to customers and doing that. And I think that there’s a lot of resources out there. Sometimes it really just takes somebody to say, you can do it. As a matter of fact, my partner is starting a startup and we didn’t ever think that that would happen. And so just watching me has allowed them to do that as well because they can see that it can happen.

I’ll say the second thing, which I think is really important is that in order to take a risk and start your own business, it often takes a level of economic comfort and privilege. So I was lucky because my partner could support me while I was starting this project and if I didn’t have any money in the bank and I really had to make an income, I took a few months without income while we got this going. And so it does take that kind of level and I think that that’s a really hard part. I think that there’s a lot of folks with really good ideas who just aren’t in a financial place where they can take a risk and go without income coming in. And I’m always exploring how we can fix that problem.

Adam DeGraide:

Yeah, there’s no doubt about it. And it’s fascinating because at the end of the day, you have these ideas, folks that are watching this, you know they’re buried in you. At some point, there’s just like a leap of faith, you have to do it. And I liken the illustration too, jumping into the California ocean, there’s no easy way in. You can’t toe dip into that thing. It’s not going to happen. You’ve got to jump in head first, go for it. Otherwise, you’re going to constantly watch other people do it and at some point you’ve just got to do that.

Now, Ryan, that’s great advice by the way. And I also was thinking about Tony Little, I don’t know if … A few years ago, the guy, the exercise guy, I’m Tony Little, and he’d be like, “You can do it.” And he would always get into the camera, he’d be grinding into the camera, and I’d be like, people are motivated by this? But they are. And at some point, we do need somebody to help us and say, “Hey Ryan, that’s a great idea. Let’s do it.” And I think that’s fantastic. How can people find out about you personally and where can they go to find a therapist themselves?

Ryan Schwartz:

Yeah, you could find me, LinkedIn is where I’m at, Ryan Schwartz with Mental Health Match. That’s probably the best way to get in touch with me. Otherwise, you can find us, mentalhealthmatch.com. Like I said, free, absolutely anonymous, easy to use, help you even if you’re just curious about who might be out there to support you. Take our little survey and maybe just see what options are available to you. We are also on Instagram at Mental Health Match. So those are the best ways and you can always email us, it’s info@mentalhealthmatch.com and we would love to be in touch with you and hear your ideas. And if I can be supportive, if you need a cheerleader and you’re not finding it, find me on LinkedIn and I’ll be happy to tell you that you can do it. I might not have the energy as Tony Little, but I’ll tell you, you can do it.

Adam DeGraide:

You can do it. I would just remember, it was my wife at the time and I would be watching Tony Little and I’m on the ground trying to do sit-ups and this guy is grinding in front of my TV screen. I’m like, there’s something awesome about this and something really weird about this all at the same time. But you should look it up online, Tony Little. You can do it. His videos were hilarious. Ryan, it has been awesome having you on the David Vs Goliath Podcast. Have you enjoyed yourself?

Ryan Schwartz:

Absolutely. It’s been so great to connect with you. I love what you’re doing and I love that this is a resource for folks who are going on their journeys.

Adam DeGraide:

Yeah, man. And your story is fantastic guys. Folks, ladies and gentlemen watching the show right now, stop and think about Ryan’s story. Tragedy, lost his mom, turned it into an amazing idea. His life is positive. Yours can be too. Turn lemons into lemonade as they say, it can be done. Another amazing episode of the David Vs Goliath Podcast is in the can. We’ll see you next week. Have a great day.